The Deadliest Mass Shooting in American History

Discussion in 'World Events' started by ecdc, Jun 12, 2016.

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  1. ecdc

    ecdc Active Member

    It's unbelievable and so predictable all at the same time. We live in a country where Republicans tell us LGBTQ Americans using a bathroom are a threat to the public, but guns are a great good that keep us safe. It could not be more backwards if you tried.

    It is appalling that we talk about American exceptionalism when these things keep happening. Of course, we're the country that didn't care when children were murdered in their school, when elderly people were murdered in their church, so we won't do a damn thing when gay Latino men are murdered in a nightclub.

    We aren't safe in elementary schools, high schools, colleges, hotels, churches, movie theaters, malls, offices, parks, or even military bases. The only thing that's safe is the Second Amendment.
     
  2. Dabob2

    Dabob2 Well-Known Member

    All I can think of is that great headline from the Onion after Sandy Hook (paraphrasing): "'How could this have happened?' says only country where this kind of thing routinely happens."

    And on one level it doesn't really matter what this guy's motivation turns out to be. What matters is that he had perfectly legal access to a weapon - meant for the military - whose only purpose is to kill as many people as possible in as short a time as possible. A weapon we did in fact ban for a decade to no ill effect (if the British came over and re-conquered us, I guess I missed it), but was allowed to lapse due to the NRA and a spineless Congress.

    The same type of weapon used at Sandy Hook, bought by a woman who never would have even thought about buying it on the black market if the ban had not lapsed and it had not been on the shelf at her local gun store. Because it was on the shelf, she bought it. And her son thus had access to it. And perhaps a dozen more families had to bury their 6-year-olds than would have had to it all he'd had were handguns.
     
  3. ecdc

    ecdc Active Member

    Looks like he was crazy about ISIS and guns. That's the thing, it doesn't have to be one or the other. Our gun fetish in this country only enables terrorists. ISIS and al Qaeda have both told terrorists to take advantage of lax US gun laws.
     
  4. fkurucz

    fkurucz Member

    FWIW, they don't have any problems getting their hands on guns in Europe.
     
  5. mawnck

    mawnck Well-Known Member

    Tragically timely:

     
  6. Dabob2

    Dabob2 Well-Known Member

    In Europe, guns like that have to be smuggled in; they can't just be bought in the corner store. And if police are tipped and such guns are discovered, that alone is grounds for arrest, as has indeed happened, thwarting attacks that could have (probably would have) occurred. Here, if the police discover such weapons, they can't do a thing if they were legally purchased.
     
  7. oc_dean

    oc_dean Member

    What upsets me more than anything else ... Are those in Congress who will do nothing. It's Business as usual in America.
    THE LAND OF THE FREE ...... to buy a gun anywhere, and any time they want!
     
  8. ecdc

    ecdc Active Member

    Every single time a member of Congress tweeted out their thoughts and prayers, I replied and told them we don't want their thoughts and prayers, we want action. It's nothing compared to the millions of dollars the NRA spends, but there's only one thing these people fear more than the NRA: losing re-election. We need to let them know they will be voted out of office if they don't do something.
     
    queenbee likes this.
  9. oc_dean

    oc_dean Member

    Yeah .. time to queue up the usual "I"ll pray for the families" statements.

    There are 2 kinds of prayers -

    The kind that really don't do a thing, but the intent behind the person who says them .. is good - which I appreciate.
    And the kind that also do nothing, but said by politicians - As if politicians have any real "good intent" for The People.

    So they mean double nothing to me. Empty statements ... by people in power, who won't use that power for good purposes.

    And some sort of gun control HAS to happen at some point.

    Until then ... The US of A has descended back into it's root'n toot'n old west days - Where it's every man, woman, and child for themselves!
     
  10. oc_dean

    oc_dean Member

    And then there's the related story of this - Man with weapons was headed to L.A. gay pride parade

    It's Kill Gays week!

    .......... and it all goes on. There will be more mass shootings. The usual "prayers" ... and more mass shootings. More politicians who won't do a thing. More shootings. More prayers. And nothing. (Why do people still believe "Prayer" does a thing???). And more mass shootings... and more ........ and more. We can pray all we want - it will do absolutely nothing.

    I consider myself lucky I live in Australia. A model America should follow. Since the Port Arthur massacre in 1996, Australia clamped down on guns and this country has not had a mass shooting since. A single shooting will occur from time to time. But not like the mass shootings that happen .. sometime every week (few days ago - Dallas airport) .... or at least one a month in America.
     
  11. Dabob2

    Dabob2 Well-Known Member

    Saw a very interesting stat in the paper today. The number of casualties in mass shootings has tripled in the decade since the assault weapons ban was allowed to lapse (2004-2014), compared to the decade when it was in place (1994-2004). Note this doesn't even include yesterday, San Bernardino, or other mass shootings of the past 18 months.

    Once again: these are army weapons. They are designed for one purpose: to kill as many people as possible, as quickly as possible. They are not necessary for hunting, range shooting, or protection.

    In the decade we banned them, the army still had them, and civilians could still buy all the regular guns they wanted.

    In the decade since we allowed the ban to lapse, the number of casualties in mass shootings tripled.
     
  12. DAR1974

    DAR1974 Active Member

    About a year ago I imposed a ban where I just pay as little attention to the news because it's just a depressing slog. After yesterday I don't regret that decision
     
    oc_dean likes this.
  13. ecdc

    ecdc Active Member

    What I find incredibly depressing is that it's become clear that it doesn't matter how many people die...5, 50, 500, 5000...gun owners will shrug and spew the same NRA talking points and post the same stupid memes about "liberty" and their rights to Facebook.

    You know what they remind me of? The South before the Civil War. Suggest to them that their property is causing widespread misery and death and they completely ignore that and just throw a fit that you're hurting their feelings and insulting them and they rant and rave about their rights as property owners. They are a bunch of thin-skinned childish people who throw a temper tantrum and immediately ramp up the rhetoric to 11 the moment you question their way of life.
     
    oc_dean likes this.
  14. oc_dean

    oc_dean Member

    I'm not tuned into all the major tv news channels .. like CNN, MSNBC, etc (Not going to get these channels in Australia) .... but what I seem to be learning ... the guy was apparently gay. Grew up in a Muslim home. Was torn and conflicted between who he was .. and his religious convictions (already a few mental issues) ...... and then .. this.

    Is this what everybody else is learning?
     
  15. ecdc

    ecdc Active Member

    Yes, it is increasingly looking like that is the case. A deeply conflicted, mentally ill man who just had the good fortune to live in a country where we make it exceptionally easy to take your hate and rage and self-loathing out on others.
     
  16. hopemax

    hopemax Member

    I hadn't heard how long he had been visiting the club yet, only that he had been there. And it strikes me that, if he was gay and bi-polar, what he did is a very American thing to do. Americans are very good at pointing to external factors for the reasons they do the things they do, when it's the internal that matters more. People are still pointing to Islam as it's the problem, totally overlooking the common threads between growing up in a household and religion that do not tolerate the very essence of who you are and circumstances that happen here in certain Christian households. But he said the magic word, ISIS, and so we can all freely ignore everything else.
     
  17. Kar2oonman

    Kar2oonman Active Member

    My wish is that rather than story after boring story about the shooter and his miserable life, more attention and focus in the media would be given to each and every one of the people who were injured or killed. What hopes and dreams and careers and families do they leave behind? What causes did they care about? Tell us about the worth of THEIR lives rather than endless analyzing of a maniac that should be forgotten.

    I know maniacs like ISIS and NRA and whatever the hell else they use to make up for their confused little selves. I'm tired of all the airtime given to their "causes" -- that is free publicity to recruit more maniacs. I read about a father of a 25 year old woman who was killed in this terrible incident. Days ago, he certainly never imagined that he would be scrambling to plan a funeral for his daughter. I have a daughter the same age and it absolutely broke my heart reading his reaction to this horror. We're planning a wedding and this poor man is planning a funeral because a craven lobbying group wants to sell ever more guns, consequences be damned, and has bought up pretty much every politician it can in support of this.

    And not a single God damned thing will change after this.

    It didn't change when those babies were killed at Sandy Hook, not after San Bernardino, not ofter any of the more than 100 such incidents that have happened already this year. Our gun-loving society absolutely refuses to consider that maybe, just maybe, some sensible limits on the types of firepower available to anyone everywhere might be in order.

    But it will not happen. Because in America, we love our guns more than literally anything.
     
    oc_dean, Mr. X and mawnck like this.
  18. Dabob2

    Dabob2 Well-Known Member

    Here you go.

    Orlando Victims Remembered for Their Courage, Passion, Pride
     
    Mr. X and mawnck like this.
  19. skinnerbox

    skinnerbox Member

    I really hate the way the media is covering this, how Trump is focusing on this, along with his supporters.

    The shooter was a semi-regular patron of Pulse for years. Also used some gay dating app (know very little about these things in general since I have no life) for hookups. Second wife didn't know he was gay; probably first wife didn't know, either.

    Closeted dude who can't deal with his sexuality who goes postal. Literally. That's what this is about.

    The whole ISIS salute on the 911 call is a smokescreen. He also gave support for terrorist individuals and organizations that are diametrically opposed to the ISIS mission statement, if not their mortal enemies. It was as if the guy praised Hilter and Winston Churchill and FDR in the same breath! But of course... the media doesn't want you to know that because he was... Muslim! :eek: :eek: :eek:

    This tragedy had absolutely nothing to do with Islam. Doesn't matter he was Muslim. He could have been born and raised Baptist by the whackjobs at Westboro. The end result would have been the same.

    And shame on anyone like Trump trying to push their Islamophobic agenda because of his religion. Good gracious Marie! The guy is beginning to surpass Hitler in terms of hate. :mad:
     
    PNWTigger, Kar2oonman and oc_dean like this.

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