But Disney could still secure the east side of the esplanade with a security area on the west side of the new pedestrian bridge, which would also allow the pedestrians from Harbor Boulevard to join in and go through the same security checkpoint as those parking in the new structure. I don't think Disney will completely block off access along Harbor Boulevard because there are too many hotels along there, and people walk to the parks from hotels that are one or two blocks south on Harbor Boulevard. The only thing Disney is accomplishing by having the security area prior to the pedestrian bridge is making the pedestrian bridge secure. It doesn't really help with that side of the esplanade if pedestrians from Harbor are still able to access that entrance point. But this is Disney. Whatever they concoct will be magical and we will all be thanking them for it and rewarding them with our money.
<someone did notice that if you look at one of the more detailed art released it shows that the elevated pedestrain bridge has a small walkway along side it that leads into the new security area. This could very well be the path that will need to be used by guests. At the end of the path they might have a small security point. Once the guests goes thru that they are inside the secured area for the New east gateway. From there they then proceed to walk on the elevated bridge.> I'm not picturing this. This walkway is east of Harbor? West of Harbor? And "along side" also meaning one level above street?? Or at street level? And if it's at street level, then they'd have to ascend to the elevated bridge. If it's west of Harbor and at street level (so really "under" more than "along side"), then this is what many of us picture; a second security area west of Harbor at street level for Harbor hotel guests. If it's east of Harbor, essentially leading from the back of the Fairfield to the security area, that's okay for guests of the Fairfield or Hojo's, but not so much for anyone south of the crosswalk, whose walk just got a lot longer. I don't know where the idea that DISNEY wants to eliminate the crosswalk comes from. Anaheim maybe (though I've driven that stretch of Harbor countless times and the holdup has never been that bad for me). But Disney wants to keep its guests happy, and that includes guests who stay on Harbor and like to walk to the parks via the shortest route. <the Grand to DTD can easily be resolved with a simple security point like the one used to access DCA from the hotel.> They'd have to have one at the DTD exit/entrance to GCH. The one they have now going to DCA works all right and was planned from the beginning, and thus is well-themed. But for the DTD exit, for guests going to DL (which still draws bigger crowds than DCA, so they'd have to have more than just one table), it wouldn't be a good look for their flagship hotel. Also, many people many not think of this, but the GCH also has an exit-only door right near the east end of DTD that has to remain because it's a fire exit. They'd presumably have to have something here too. We used that exit on one trip several times because we were in that end of the hotel and it was super-convenient, letting you out of the hotel right near (current) security. If that was "post-security," then a nefarious hotel guest (or just someone in the know walking through the GCH) could circumvent security unless they set up another post there. I don't see west side security moving. You'd have to have something at M&F, AND at the main entrance to DTD for those just going to DTD, AND near ESPN Zone for DLH guests, AND at the main DTD exit from GCH, AND at the fire exit. And I don't see them feeling the need to secure DTD anyway. Who wants to go through a long bag-check line just to go see a movie or eat at Tortilla Joe's? It makes much more sense to me for them to leave west side security alone.
Just adding something as simple as securing tram passengers at the garage instead of the esplanade turns out to be not so simple.
Yep, I agree. And if the security on the west side stays the same, wouldn't it be easier to keep security on the east side where it is as well? Not sure they really need to secure the area between the new parking structure and the esplanade.....
They may be thinking that when the new structure opens, east side security would be overwhelmed. Right now it's basically for Harbor hotel guests and those on bus shuttles. If you throw in all those new structure parkers, you need to be able to process more people or the lines get quite long potentially. So keep street level security east of Harbor with roughly the same traffic level as now (actually somewhat less taking away the buses) and add the new one for the parkers and buses. I'm guessing that's their thinking.
the idea of eliminating pedestrian traffic was in an article that was published by one of the local newspaper, i cant seem to remember which one but it was posted by someone else in another site. It talks about the issues with the huge crowds of guests creating massive safety and traffic issues on Harbor blvd where the crosswalk is. It was mentioned that Anaheim with the help of Disney hope to eliminate the need for pedestrian traffic crossing that intersection. I really doubt that it would be completely eliminated and if it does that it will take a while. I'm guessing the process would take time to educate guests of the changes just like they educated drivers on the change when the original Harbor entrance for cars was eliminated. As for the pathway that i talked about that someone else pointed out in another board, the pathway is at ground level just underneath the proposed elevated pedestrian walkway. it runs along the future elevated walkway and tropicana suites. if this walkway is built then it would be an easy access for the guests staying in motels north of the new elevated walkway as well as people staying in the Tropicana suites, The best western park vue and Anaheim desert Inn/Del Sol. The two motels south of the Anaheim desert Inn which include The Best Western Plus and the Fifth are actually not that far from the new eastern Pedestrian gate. Guests in those two hotels can walk north on harbor or just turn into Disney way. I really don't see much of an issue for guests from Hojo or fairfield Inn. The check out counter can advice their guests not to walk down Harbor but instead walk east down Manchester. the walk would be the same as walking to the existing entrance point. Actually its a shorter walk and the shuttle area will have pedestrian access from Manchester. the west side Security point I agree is tricky and like i mentioned i don't know if they would consider the change. The thing is that they do see an issue with the existing set-up and the congestion it causes in that corner of the resort. Maybe its time to reconsider the tram load and unload area. Not sure if they might be able to start just boarding on the south side and dropping off at the north side. Then all guests arriving by tram are screen at a new security point here is a picture of the plans that i mentioned about. Someone had looked at this and pointed out that the property of the existing hotel is marked in red outline. The elevated pedestrain bridge does not use the full width of the property. That person in another site also noted that on both sides of the new pathway there are paths that lead into the security entrance area from harbor. I marked them in yellow here. In the Q&A that one of the hotels had with Disney, Disney said that hotels guests will still be able to use Harbor to access the resort but it never specified how. They also mention that guest will have access and will be dropped off into an area that will connect them to the secured pedestrian bridge. These vague statements do not specify that they will maintain a secondary security area on harbor near existing entrance. Also note, another person noted that the city has removed reference to the Anaheim/OC walk of stars and has stopped allowing applications. part of the reason is that the new plans call for changes on the pedestrian sidewalks along harbor blvd along Disney property because of the new employee drop of shuttle area. This same person also pointed out that they are involved with the city of Anaheim and that plans call for the lights and pedestrian crosswalk across the hotels to be removed completely and that the city plans on extending the fencing that is already present in parts of the middle medium of harbor blvd so that guests do not cross Harbor blvd anymore. These similar plans date back to the early 1990's when Disney had proposed the resort expansion. I'm sure that more information will be released within the next couple months. there is a 30 day review period from the date that Disney filed the plans for city departments and the public to review. Then it can be placed on the Planning Commission Calendar.
First of all, I don't see "massive traffic and safety issues" with the current setup. It's actually set up pretty well. I've never had to wait too long when I've driven it (yes, that's anecdotal), while I have had pretty bad traffic troubles elsewhere in the area (Ball and DL Drive, for instance), and has anyone ever been run over by a car there? I can't imagine it wouldn't have been all over the news if that had happened. If they don't let Harbor guests just cross Harbor at the crosswalk as usual, it's a major pain in the butt for them. <I really don't see much of an issue for guests from Hojo or fairfield Inn. The check out counter can advice their guests not to walk down Harbor but instead walk east down Manchester. the walk would be the same as walking to the existing entrance point. Actually its a shorter walk and the shuttle area will have pedestrian access from Manchester.> It is most definitely not a shorter walk. A shorter walk to "Disney property" perhaps, but certainly not to the front gates. Just look at Google maps and trace it yourself. They would be walking east (actually southeast) to get to the parking structure/security complex, and then all the way back west just to get to (above) Harbor Blvd. The length of the walk to the parks is greatly lengthened. And if they close the fence on Harbor as you're suggesting, so is the walk back at the end of the night. Even those staying relatively close to the crosswalk have their trip lengthened. Consider someone staying in, say, the Tropicana in about the middle of the motel. Instead of walking half the length of the motel to Harbor and crossing, as now, they'd have to walk half the length of the motel west to get to Harbor, walk down to the pedestrian path, walk the equivalent of a FULL length of the motel east to get to security (and walk up stairs to reach that), then walk back another full length of the motel west past the security area and across Harbor. <I really doubt that it (Harbor crosswalk) would be completely eliminated and if it does that it will take a while.> Then they're going to need a West-of-Harbor street level security area anyway!
i did forget to mention that Disney does have plans off having shuttles take ADA enabled guests from the new parking structure to a new shuttle drop of zone near the employee entrance. Guests will be dropped off and have access to a path that will connect to the street level area of the bridge on Disney property. There will be a small security booth there so in theory it can be used by hotel guests that cross from Hojo's on Manchester crosswalk. i have attached a marked up picture showing bits and pieces of information that i have read about and tried to explain in my previous posts. Obviously no one is for certain what will be the final outcome probably not even Disney until plans are approved and modified. The blue line represent the proposed fencing to prevent guests from crossing harbor. Part of this fencing already exists red line represent possible access points to the resort for the hotels north of new pedestrian bridge. The yellow line also represents a possible access point to the security area if the person on another board read the plans correctly and if the path next to the elevated pathway at street level exists. The purple one is obviously the one that Disney and the city hope to eventually have all guests. The green square represents approximate ADA shuttle drop of zone which supposedly will have its own small security booth that in theory could be used by guests coming from the northern hotels
I'm not trying to argue in regards to traffic or not, i obviously don't stand on harbor and spent time paying attention to that but it is a fact that the city has been working with Disney about the traffic situation on Harbor. it is something that was a huge concern when the resort expanded in 1990's and it still is. If the city feels that Harbor has a traffic issue then it does and really doesn't matter what I or you and any of us think. That area is also getting ready to increase hotel rooms with two large proposed hotels in the approval process. Soon the Anaheim hotel will be removed and a new multi story hotel built and another hotel is proposed for Disney way. It might be a pain in the butt if they don't let hotel guests just walk across but that is not their concern as long as they offer alternative method just like the resort proposal stated when it was written in 1993. As for the fence it is not my suggestion that is also a fact and it is something the city has been wanting to do and a reason that they have been working closely with Disney to get this project going. Like i mentioned all this has been in the works for years and is one of the reasons the parking structure took so long. Its all in writing in the resort proposal. as for the extra walking i know it can be an issue for some but then that is why ADA shuttles will be offered. I personally don't mind it even though I am ADA and suffer from Necrosis of the hip which is very painful.
Closing the crosswalk and forcing Harbor hotel guests to do all this backtracking is in the resort proposal?? Link? And you're talking about a proposal from 1993?? I don't think they'd have to hold to that, and a proposal is not an agreement. A lot of this sounds like the "well, somebody said on another thread on another board that Anaheim says this and Disney says this..." It IS Disney's concern if their guests who stay on Harbor find it a pain in the butt. And an "alternate method," if you mean an ADA shuttle, won't cut it for most people, as most people wouldn't qualify and they wouldn't set it up for very many people - the vast majority would face this increased walk in both directions. Maybe Anaheim would prefer the crosswalk be closed. But I can't imagine Disney would. Their interest is in moving the largest number of people in the most efficient way via the shortest route.
The way I read the map is that the walkways enter the eastern gateway inside the secured area. If so, they won't be public walkways.
The thing is that Disney doesn't control the streets or sidewalks, so if Anaheim is looking for a way to improve traffic flow on Harbor then they Will extend the fencing on Harbor. This is not the only plan they are looking at. The city is also planning on doing the same on Katella. They really want to eliminate as much pedestrain traffic from crossing streets around the resort and they are looking into building Pedestrian bridges on katella as well and possibly adding fencing down the middle of Katella to stop anyone from jay walking. the upside of all of this for Disney is increase spending in their parks, with the longer route guests will be less likely to leave the park to eat at one of the chain eateries along Harbor. Yeha i don't think they would be upset. The resort plans do state though that Disney has to have direct Pedestrian access for guests on all gateways. If the city does decide to remove the lights and add fencing then both they and Disney are in accordance to the Disney resort plans since in theory they will have a small access point mainly used by ADA guests. The resort plans are available online and accessible to anyone and can be read by anyone that is interested and wants to spend time reading it and yes even though they were made in 1993 they are valid and have to be followed unless both Disney and the city get together and make amendments to them.
I agree with getting pedestrians off of crosswalks. When I visited a month or so, we had a hotel on Harbor Blvd. in the car, just to turn into an adjoining street was a nightmare! Waiting three traffic light cycles to allow pedestrians to crooooooooosssss theeeee streeeeeet.
<The thing is that Disney doesn't control the streets or sidewalks, so if Anaheim is looking for a way to improve traffic flow on Harbor then they Will extend the fencing on Harbor. > That can't be correct. Anaheim doesn't own that property. They may be able to close the crosswalk if they really wanted to. But there's no way they could build a fence on property they don't own if the property owner didn't want it. I think history shows us that Anaheim basically never does anything that Disney really objects to. So if Disney wants that entrance to remain open, it will remain open. <they are looking into building Pedestrian bridges on katella as well> Really? I've never heard that one before, and that's just not something you can wave your fingers and have happen. Look how long it's taking them to do a bridge at the obvious spot across harbor. They had to build a massive new parking structure for that to happen ! And who exactly is supposedly paying for those bridges? It wouldn't be Disney if it doesn't connect to anything Disney owned. Anaheim? Hell, if they could build a bridge or two across Katella, why wouldn't they just build one or two across Harbor and be done with it? This doesn't make any sense. <even though they were made in 1993 they are valid and have to be followed> Really? You called it a proposal. A proposal is not an agreement. A proposal from 1993 is less than that. Especially if a major element has come into play, like say, a massive parking structure.
Removing the cross walks and sidewalk on Disneyland's side and putting a fence in the middle is their way of making it very uncomfortable for the remaining motels on that strip of land. They've had a good run and now its time say good bye. It will ultimately be a much safer area and traffic should flow better.
Disney has a symbiotic relationship with those properties. They represent a lot of rooms, and the DLR paradigm has shifted from nearly all day-trippers to a mix of day-tripping locals and longer-term visitors (which was the whole point of DCA). There are even quite a few locals (or local-ish) who choose to stay overnight because multi-day tickets are cheaper or because they just don't feel they can see everything they want to see in a day any more. My friends from San Diego definitely do that. But if Disney makes it too much of a PITA to stay close, they'll just resume the day-tripping paradigm - which is a loss of revenue to Disney. Unless Disney has a really loooooooooong game going here, and plans to make those properties "say goodbye," buy up that land and put their own properties there (and then open up the fence again), I don't see them wanting to make those Good Neighbor hotels uncomfortable. Even if they did have such a long game, in the short-to-medium term it would hurt them.
With how each new regime likes to put their own stamp on things, I can't imagine Disneyland hanging onto plans from 6 regimes ago.
Every corporation has that guy that acts as the company pack rat and can bring up docs at a moments notice.
No doubt. I suspect what berol meant was "hang on" to a plan in the sense of feeling obligated to execute it. And I think he's right. They wouldn't feel obligated to carry out something that the 1993 regime thought was a good idea at the time, necessarily. Maybe they'd still think it was a good idea. But maybe not.
