What to do about the Parking Structure??

This is a copy of a post on mice chat. What do you guys think?

Gonzo wrote:

"Like most of you I visit the resort semi-regularly. Last weekend I was sitting in traffic being redirected from Mickey and Friends to Simba and then on to Toy Story trying to find a spot to park at. While sitting in this terrible traffic I was thinking what can we do about it? After reading todays Mileage update I am disappointed to see that once again the businesses on the East side of Harbor are trying to stop Disney from building the bridge necessary to get the structure done.

I like most of you on this sight have looked at the concepts and the arial pictures of the new structure and security setup and am optimistic. Frankly I do not care if the business along Harbor I.E. Hotels, and restaurants along Harbor like the bridge or not. If Disney brings millions of people past your business every year and they are not compelled to walk and extra 100 feet or even 100 yards to your business then maybe you should reconsider your business model. I like most of you patronize the Disneyland resort and want to see it succeed. If Disney succeeds then my family will get even more goodies to enjoy. If Disney is required to build additional access/ramp/bridge then Disney will have to staff it. Will it be less safe? In truth, what all of this means is that the costs will go up. That money will come from somewhere else. It might mean that 1-2 bag checkers are taken away from somewhere else and some people working the medal detector are now working on the street level access. Will this mean slower wait times for those of us coming from the structure? My family is inconvenienced, your family is inconvenienced. Why??? So someone doesn't have to walk an extra few feet to get to McDonalds?

I remember the last time the resort was being attacked and a group SOAR (Save Our Anaheim Resort) went out into the community and worked hard to get the city council to get things done. Is it time for something similar? I know that this will not be popular with the out of town people who frequent those businesses. They might have to walk a little farther to the resort ;(. But lets be realistic, should this or some community start a campaign to help Disney get this done? If we do, what can we do?

1. Boycot all the Harbor business participating in this campaign against the new parking structure and bridge?
2. Discourage others from using those businesses?
3. Actively working online on this sight, Facebook, instagram, Yelp, and other media to express our discontent?
4. ???

Am I wrong here? Am I in the minority? It seems to me that the thousand of guests many of whom visit this sight want Disney to go forward. Make the resort a better experience for everyone. I honestly don't have any dislike of any of those businesses. I don't have a vested interest in those businesses either.

Should the fan community get involved in the affairs of the city of Anaheim?

What do you all think??

Lets discuss."

 

I really agree with a lot of these points.

 

I actually disagree with pretty much all of that. This is a problem of Disney's creation, and the design they have proposed so far is pretty lousy. It's not the fault of the Harbor Blvd businesses that they want a reasonable solution, even though Disney apparently has no interest in that

DLR parking has been a known issue for many, many years. The Pumbaa lot has been designated as a site for a future parking structure since the early 1990's with the old Westcot concepts, and the Toy Story lot was added to allow for the parking capacity during construction. A decade later, they're finally getting around to actually doing something on that site, and it's a lousy design.

To be clear, I'm talking about the proposed concept at the most basic level, not the bridge's aesthetics (simultaneously tacky and cheap, unlike the DTD bridge) nor the lack of transportation from the parking structure to the parks (a huge oversight for Disney's premium pricing). This is all about the simple flow of people from one point to another. Ultimately it's people, not cars, that Disney is trying to get to its parks, so they should get priority regardless of where their trip originated

That section of Harbor Blvd is probably the busiest pedestrian corridor in Orange County. Yes, it's got its flaws (too many driveway entrances, for starters), but overall it seems to work pretty well as urban design. To create a design that not only ignores pedestrians, but makes it significantly more difficult to use, is foolhardy.

As I said when I first saw this concept, it would be quite simple to add a pedestrian security area beneath the walkway on the east side of Harbor Blvd, with vertical circulation (escalators, elevators, etc) to the bridge above. This would allow pedestrians to continue using that corridor, without requiring a massive backtrack to get to the parks, and seems to be the most likely way to get the project to work and could be accomplished within the existing footprint. Yes, it would require some additional staffing, but I'm sure the increased parking revenue from the new structure would more than make up for the difference.

This is all Disney's own doing. They waited too long to finally propose a concept, and then the concept they finally proposed was garbage and rightfully received pushback from the neighbors and the City. And as a result, it's looking increasingly unlikely that the new parking structure will be ready in time for the high-profile debut of the Star Wars land.

I'm sorry if I can't help but feel a bit of schadenfreude from all this

[Edit: As for the difficulty of getting parked, those problems are all eliminated if you just head straight to the Toy Story Lot. I've never heard of anybody being rerouted to another location from there, and in my experience (granted, it was before the latest security changes) it was typically faster than Mickey & Friends from the time I exited the freeway until I got to the parks.]

 

I'd like to point out too that it wouldn't just be the Harbor hotels who would be inconvenienced by the lack of ground-level Harbor Blvd. access, it would be the patrons of those hotels as well, a.k.a. DL's guests. Not everyone can afford to stay at Disney properties, and they don't have that many rooms to begin with. Disney itself needs those hotels on Harbor, and they should want both the hotels and the DL guests who stay in them to be happy. Depending on the hotel we're talking about, you would be adding anywhere from an annoying-but-doable to a downright-considerable extra walk both going to the park and coming back at the end of the day (if indeed they close the crosswalk). If like a lot of people you like to break up the day with a nap or swim in the afternoon, then double that.

I don't see the problem with Disney building the bridge as planned (though yes, the plan could be more elegant) for the patrons of the new parking lot, as long as they keep a small security area available for pedestrians/hotel patrons. I guess they could do it on the East side of Harbor on the ground level of the old Carousel Inn that they now own, but that has a couple of problems: a). vertical access - elevators probably wouldn't take enough people per minute, and escalators take up horizontal space, and b). patrons of places like the Candy Cane and Desert Inn would have to cross Harbor to get to it. Better, I think to just have a security area on the west side of Harbor, closer to Harbor than now. It would essentially be used only by hotel patrons, since the dropoff area for buses, etc. would now be adjacent to the new parking structure, so it wouldn't have to be all that big.

A possible compromise would be keeping the crosswalk open for exit-only, meaning people would have to use the parking structure security area (and the attendant long walk), but would exit the security area unencumbered (as at an airport) and have only the usual walk BACK to the hotel.

Obviously, I think they should keep the crosswalk open and have a small security area on the west side of Harbor, especially as a sometime-patron of those hotels. And I don't blame the businesses for putting up a fuss.

 

I will not get into the moral or legal question if Disney owes the local business in the area special consideration. I could argue either side.

But I think that some like what FerretAfros suggests is the best solution to the problem.

 

Could somebody post a link to the pictures of what this thing is supposed to look like?

 

A walkway along the east ramp from Harbor to the security area is less ideal, but works well enough for me.

scroll through the photos at the top of this article
Disneyland neighbors have a bad feeling about park’s new parking, bridge project – Orange County Register

 

Yah, this was what I was trying to get at, but you said it much more eloquently. This just seems like a classic example of DLR bending over to pick up all the pennies, while the dollar bills fly right over their heads. The Harbor hotel guests are likely to be out-of-town multi-day visitors who are there for an infrequent trip, while the people parking in the garage are much more likely to be locals and/or APers who visit with some regularity (monthly, yearly, etc). It's those locals who are more likely to use discounted tickets, eat fewer meals in the parks, and buy less merchandise. Out-of-towners tend to buy full-price multi-day tickets, eat most/all of their meals in the parks, and stock up on souvenirs; their Per Guest Spending is far higher than a local, even if you factor in the price of parking

The out-of-towners are also more likely to go back home and say to their friend/neighbor/coworker "Yah, the trip was okay, but it was a real pain to get into the parks", which could then impact their decision whether or not to make the trip themselves. A local or APer probably wouldn't be as impacted, and with their frequent visits, they're be far less likely to change their visiting patterns. APs are great for filling up the parks during the (former) off-season, but it's still the guests paying full price and spending a lot of money inside the parks that keep DLR alive. It's been far too long since management has really taken a look at what a visit is like for those out-of-towners, and considered how much value they really create

No, they're not staying at Disney hotels, but Disney doesn't have nearly the bed capacity allow that. And with the price of land and labor, Disney has made it clear that they have no intention of going after budget travelers in Anaheim, so third party hotels are really their only option. If Disney makes it difficult enough for those guests to get to their parks, they'll lose them entirely. The high-end visitors and locals will keep coming back, but it's the middle level that keeps Disney alive and what they need to fight for. In that sense, Disney isn't competing with Knott's or Magic Mountain, they're competing with cruise lines, national parks, and big cities for vacation destinations; it's almost like they don't realize that they're an internationally known destination themselves

I don't know specifics, but I have to believe that something along those lines was included in the Anaheim Resort District charter. Those hotels and restaurants all pay significantly more in taxes for the benefits of being in the Resort District. If access to the anchor of the District becomes significantly more difficult, is it still worthwhile to be a part of it? Even if it's something vague from a legal standpoint (like the "reasonable accommodation" clause of ADA), I would be shocked if there wasn't something along those lines in the compact. I also suspect there is similar language in the Good Neighbor Hotel agreements, though those seem more like a marketing concept than any real legal agreement

 

Here is a video that might help you.

 

Big news today! Basically all the old plans for the work on the eastern side of the resort have been scrapped, and work will instead be done on the west side.
Disneyland cancels Eastern Gateway Project, to build new parking structure, 4-diamond hotel on west side – Orange County Register

The new 4th hotel will no longer take over the DTD parking lot, but instead will be on the footprint currently occupied by the AMC, Rainforest Café, and ESPN Zone. It will incorporate the existing Monorail station into the hotel; the Monorail will not be rerouted (pay no attention to the questionable graphics). I will be curious to see how the interaction between hotel and DTD spaces work, since they will obviously overlap, but with the low Monorail beam on the east side of the site it will be difficult to have them on two different levels

A new parking structure for the parks will be built adjacent to Mickey & Friends, and for all intents and purposes will act like an expansion of the existing structure. Reading between the lines and what (wasn't) said, if I were a betting man I would put money on them discontinuing tram service; the expanded entry lanes will take over the turnaround space and the additional volumes of guests are too great for the already-overwhelmed trams. They'll likely be replaced by wide walking paths through DTD and/or along the existing tram route

A new DTD parking structure will be built on the Simba lot, south of the Paradise Pier, along with some sort of new entry to DTD. While relatively minor, this sounds like a nice project that should have been done years ago.

There will also be a new PPH parking structure. It's unclear if this will replace the existing structure (and its rooftop pool) or be in addition to it. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the 4th hotel and/or DLH's parking was directed here as well, since it will be close enough for practical purposes and significantly cheaper (and quicker) than building an underground structure

There are lots of changes in this announcement, so it will be interesting to see how this all works out once we have a better understanding of everything

Edit:
Here's the Park Blog post, which includes concept art. I know they're going for a bland modern aesthetic, but I'm really not a fan of the hotel design
New Hotel Coming to the Disneyland Resort in 2021

 

The problem is not with the parking structure itself but the bridge over harbor boulevard. The propose design would cut off many of the hotels and shops of the area. I don't think that fixing the design would be all that costly.

 

Wow, this is big news.

I also think the aesthetic is kind of bland and not very "Disney" somehow, although I know it's just preliminary. They talk about "showcasing nature" throughout, and I could see them making that work. Didn't see much of that in the artwork, really, though.

Interesting (and logical) that it's about 4-5 stories shorter than the DLH towers... they couldn't make it the same height or you'd block the view from those DLH "view" rooms!

Based on what they'd lose in DTD: To me, Rainforest Cafe isn't much of a loss at all. Earl of Sandwich more so, but it's small enough that they might even find a spot for it withing the hotel. ESPN Zone is a loss for me, as I've enjoyed going there - pretty decent food at a pretty decent price, fun games, and good sports bar atmosphere in that area. I never went to the AMC Theatres, but I can see some people lamenting their loss. The article talked about perhaps incorporating some of the lost businesses inside the hotel; Earl of Sandwich obviously could be, but I wonder if perhaps smaller versions of the movie theatres and ESPN Zone could as well? As long as Disney owns ESPN it would seem a natural, though who knows what kind of inter-company deal they'd have to work out.

It's interesting to think about how Disney still owns all that land that the Eastern parking garage was to occupy, as well as the former Carousel Inn space. What might they do with that in the future?

 

Wow this is interesting. I’ll be curious to see how it plays out.

I’ve loved staying at the Grand Californian in the past, but the thousands (not an exaggeration) I’ll save for an upcoming trip by booking an Airbnb makes it a no brainer. And yet, DL is presumably building an even more expensive hotel. I have no doubt it’ll consistently be booked. I wonder if part of the calculus is that the very purpose of DtD has changed. When it was conceived I get the sense it was meant to be a draw, alongside California Adventure, for teens and people “too cool” for square old Disneyland. Now with the explosion of geek culture, cosplay, Comic Cons, etc, Disney is as packed and popular as ever. Who needs a movie theater and a sports bar when Mickey and Goofy are the real draws?

 

I agree that the aesthetics aren't great. I know they're going for a non-themed "high-end" hotel, but this just leaves me really cold. It reminds me of the Four Seasons (originally a Marriott) next door to Aulani, but without any of the scenic views that type of hotel typically demands. I also can't help but think that for something trying to be modern, the style is already a few years out of date. By the time this thing opens, it will be even more out of touch with current design trends.

As for the nature elements, it seems like the vines do a decent job making it more interesting, mostly by hiding the bland architecture. They kind of remind me of the planter boxes on the Mickey & Friends parking structure. I wonder if they'll try to somehow tie the hotel back into the old DLH Garden Rooms that were originally on that footprint. It would play into DL's current self-love history elements that they try to cram into everything possible, and could potentially open the door for eventually leveling the current DLH and expanding this new hotel into that space (though I would bet on a major PPH project before that ever happens)