Originally Posted By jonvn How more inept can this Administration be? I am just stunned. Now, they are suggesting that all people under 30 abstain from sex, unless married of course. How anyone can support these people at all, in the face of an unstoppable flood of ineptitude is beyond me. Public health? Reality? Who cares! <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-10-30-abstinence-message_x.htm?csp=34" target="_blank">http://www.usatoday.com/news/w ashington/2006-10-30-abstinence-message_x.htm?csp=34</a>
Originally Posted By jonvn Here are some comments on it from....OH MY GOD...the ACLU website: <a href="http://aclupa.blogspot.com/2006/11/whats-common-sense-got-to-do-with-it.html" target="_blank">http://aclupa.blogspot.com/200 6/11/whats-common-sense-got-to-do-with-it.html</a>
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Why is it so wrong for the government to advocate abstinence? Any healthcare official will tell you it is the safest answer. If parents and schools aren't advocating the safest choice...shouldn't someone?
Originally Posted By jonvn And as I'm reading through this, I've come across another thing. What is wrong with people in this country? They are simply out of their stinking minds. <a href="http://www.silverringthing.com/get_ring.html" target="_blank">http://www.silverringthing.com /get_ring.html</a>
Originally Posted By jonvn "Why is it so wrong for the government to advocate abstinence?" Um, yeah. Hey, are you under 30 and unmarried? You better not be doing anything. The government has its sight on you.
Originally Posted By Mr X Careful guys...that ring thing leads to the dreaded EAR SEX!!!! How nasty is THAT!? (ref. Family Guy, to those not in the "know") Abstinence is for losers who can't get any, and religious nuts... The proper age for sex is...seventeen. (ref. South Park)
Originally Posted By wahooskipper People are "out of their stinking minds" for wanting to promote abstinence? Why are you so against promoting it? I remember way back in the early 90's there was a big push to make the Class of 2000 the first "non-smoking" class. Smoking isn't good for you and there was a push to try to prevent kids from doing it. It may not have been successful but what was the harm in trying? Same can be said for abstinence. Pre-marital sex is risky. I had pre-marital sex. I got an STD. I wish I hadn't. Would the government telling me not to do IT have prevented me from doing IT? Maybe not. But, maybe so. Either way, what is the harm in trying to promote the right thing?
Originally Posted By Mr X Most likely not. But, had the government focused on warning you of the dangers and informing you about how to protect yourself, things might have worked out better.
Originally Posted By jonvn "People are "out of their stinking minds" for wanting to promote abstinence? Why are you so against promoting it? " Are you under 30 and unmarried? Answer the question. If you are, then you should be abstaining also. Aside from that, why am I against it? Because it's unrealistic, promotes unhealthy behavior, and teaches the wrong thing. But this, in particular, is even more ridiculous, as now they are saying that their "guidelines" should be used for anyone under 30 and unmarried. So, is that you? Do you abstain? By choice? SO, uh, right.
Originally Posted By jonvn "I had pre-marital sex. I got an STD. I wish I hadn't." Perhaps if you were taught properly, instead of some dumb as dirt fairy tale like abstinence, you wouldn't have gotten one.
Originally Posted By jonvn "what is the harm in trying to promote the right thing?" Because it isn't "the right thing." It's a nonsense story made up by a sexphobic government that refuses to deal with the reality of any situation. Be it Iraq or simply human biology. Ideology is just fine and dandy, until it smacks up against the hard and reality of life.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper jonvn...I'm going to try and show some patience with you. I'm over 30 and I'm married. I have two children who will someday be mature enough to have this conversation with. I will ask them to abstain. I will tell them that "protection" doesn't always do what it is advertised to do. I will tell them that no matter how "safe" you try to be...you can still get pregnant/get someone pregnant or contract an STD. And, I will use myself as an example.
Originally Posted By FaMulan Well, wahooskipper, you'd better tell your kids all the nitty gritty details because all they'll get in school is "Don't have sex".
Originally Posted By jonvn "jonvn...I'm going to try and show some patience with you" Really? How awfully nice of you. I'm excited at the opportunity. The very nature of this comment is insulting. You're the one I need to have patience with, not the other way around. You don't seem to quite grasp the realities of life, nor that the government is trying to tell people under 30 to abstain, as if that's going to happen. Everyone seems to be able to understand this. Health care people from all across the country think this is a ridiculous thing for them to be saying. But, hey, what's one more unrealistic and doomed to fail policy out of the Bush Admin, eh? "I'm over 30 and I'm married" OK, then the government says it's ok for you. You're safe. "I will ask them to abstain." You better also tell them what to do if they don't. Because if not, your kids are going to go out in the world ignorant and in a position to get an STD or pregnant or both.
Originally Posted By jonvn Oh, and if you start up with the "Protection can fail" nonsense, you better be prepared for them to not bother using it at all WHEN they do have sex. You're living in a fantasy world. You better grab hold of a clue before your kids are old enough to end up giving themselves AIDS with your faulty advice.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper jonvn...you are the one who is practically venting steam out your ears. Healthcare officials KNOW FOR A FACT that the only 100% way to avoid an STD or pregnancy is to not have sex. Birth control in ANY form is not entirely effective at preventing pregnancy or STDs. It think it is inherently appropriate for the government and the school system to promote abstinence. And, I think it is incumbent on PARENTS to teach the "nitty, gritty details" and avoid "your kids going out in the world ignorant." As I stated, which you seem to have ignored, I will tell them about birth control, pregnancy and STDs. But, I will advocate abstinence. To advocate one is not to completely ignore everything else.
Originally Posted By DAR <<Careful guys...that ring thing leads to the dreaded EAR SEX!!!! How nasty is THAT!? (ref. Family Guy, to those not in the "know")>> <<<<Gives a big thumbs up to Mr. X.
Originally Posted By jonvn "you are the one who is practically venting steam out your ears." I'm sorry, have you already lost your "patience" with me? Feh. "Healthcare officials KNOW FOR A FACT " The only problem is that peopld don't behave like that, so it's foolish to think that they will. SO since that they will not, the appropriate thing to do is to teach people the best ways to protect themselves while having sex. Be that as it may, you seem to be conveniently forgetting the under 30 deal. Even more ridiculous. The whole idea is unworkable, and unrealistic, and you can argue about it until the cows come home, but that's how it is. And unless you teach your kids about how to safely have sex when they do it, you're setting yourself up for some problems when they get older. "I think it is incumbent on PARENTS to teach the "nitty, gritty details" and avoid "your kids going out in the world ignorant." " And if they don't? Then what? Another unrealistic statement that you are making. And the fact is that you yourself seem to be saying that you WON'T be telling them the proper information. Aside from that, we're talking about ADULTS here, that the Bush Admin is telling to abstain. That's not going to happen either. "I will tell them about birth control, pregnancy and STDs. But, I will advocate abstinence. To advocate one is not to completely ignore everything else." Good. Then maybe they'll have a fighting chance, if they don't ignore you and do whatever anyway. Which also happens. Whatever you say, though, I have a feeling your children will have sex prior to them becoming 30 years old. And they will likely do it before they are married, too. Might as well get used to that fact and deal with it.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>the "Protection can fail" nonsense<< Um, it isn't nonsense. MOST of the time, used properly, it doesn't fail. But sometimes it does. You have to tell kids the whole story, and that's all Wahoo is saying.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I am just stunned. Now, they are suggesting that all people under 30 abstain from sex, unless married of course. >> Sex in marriage? No way. It will never happen. ;-)
