Crowd Levels

Originally Posted By HokieSkipper

From all accounts from my friends, the crowd levels at WDW are seriously low right now compared to a normal summer season, where as Uni is definitely seeing aboon from their new investment(including ridiculously heavy merch sales), I need to ask:

Is there something on the way? We all know how the company hates to play second fiddle, and the low numbers this summer have to say something to them.

So, what does everyone think?

 

Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer

I would say that yes, they are in the process of looking at other things to build that would help get back some crowds from Potter.


But you knew that already, oh obvious one. ;-)

 

Originally Posted By HokieSkipper

I was getting it out in the ether for everyone else.

And there's bigger problems than Potter, IMO. The parks are basically empty for this time of year. Very low wait times for basically everything.

 

Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer

I wouldn't say empty...But it is lighter than normal.


I was very pleased with that, in both terms of having to wait, and also in terms of seeing that Uni was having an effect on the Mouse.

 

Originally Posted By HokieSkipper

<<I wouldn't say empty...But it is lighter than normal.>>

For this time of year, it's virtually empty.

I've heard TSMM has lines under an hour long. That NEVER happens.

 

Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer

Are we going to get into a debate about semantics now? Virtually isn't empty. ;-)

But yes, it is a LOT quieter that it should be. Think TDO will notice?

 

Originally Posted By HokieSkipper

I said basically in my first post. *shrugs* Of course they'll notice. the question is will the give a ****.

 

Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer

From the few things I have heard, yeah, they might give a ####. Let's see if they act on it.

 

Originally Posted By MousDad

Does everyone hear that???




It's complete silence.




Well, if EE and Skip would shut up for a minute you could hear (or not hear) it.



It's silence from all those folks, including some high profile ones here at LP, who were poo-pooing us 6 weeks ago about the affect Potter would have on Disney attendance.

Wait till the per guest spending numbers come out. Ouch.

Time for some hastily-contrived, cost way more but deliver way less, reactionary plans.

Wait, they have those already you say? Hmm. Better seal the windows on the upper floors at TDO.

 

Originally Posted By hopemax

I was just in FL for 2 weeks in June. Only spent 4 days in the parks, and on one hand things seemed busy. Mad dash for TSMM fastpasses, and the line did grow to it's normal 90 min. But then at MK, there was nobody there for the 2nd showing of the Electrical Parade. Walking through MS shops at the end of the day, was manageable.

Now that I'm home I saw a promotion, that if you eat at counter service restaurants at the MK you get a coupon for 20% off merchandise, if you shop in the morning. What's up with that!?!

I think, though, that they are going to peg softness on the economy rather than any weakening of their products, or strengthening of their competitor's products. Although, I am sure there are a couple people sweating it out, hoping that the Harry Potter effect is going to go away once schools get back in session. A temporary, front-loaded blip, quick to end and show that Universal is in the same boat that they are in.

 

Originally Posted By standor

Lately Disney didn't care about their guests because the money was flowing in. Now with the economy down, people are spending their money where they get the most bang for their buck. WDW is not that place anymore. Parks should be open longer, food should be better and cheaper and the place should be kept cleaner. LIKE IT USED TO BE.
Hoping that Disney gets wise and starts doing what Walt wants and not go for the greed.

 

Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer

>>>Wait, they have those already you say? Hmm. Better seal the windows on the upper floors at TDO.<<<
l would hope at those are rides.... Because the hotel building isn't really going to draw in guests.

 

Originally Posted By CaptainMichael

<<<Wait till the per guest spending numbers come out. Ouch.>>>

Exactly! Universal's spending per guest has to be blowing Disney's out of the water. And Universal isn't offering any discounts! The product is THAT much stronger. Incredible!

 

Originally Posted By leemac

<<Exactly! Universal's spending per guest has to be blowing Disney's out of the water. And Universal isn't offering any discounts!>>

Don't forget that Uni is only a licensee of the product - the lion's share of the profit will go directly to WB. WB was offering 10% share when they were shopping it around - no idea if that is what Uni secured. That was one of the clauses that made Disney think twice - WDW Co. prefers to sell limited edition pins at 1,000% profit.

 

Originally Posted By leemac

<<It's silence from all those folks, including some high profile ones here at LP, who were poo-pooing us 6 weeks ago about the affect Potter would have on Disney attendance.>>

Potterland has been open, what, less than a month? Do you really expect that the attendance over the last month is indicative of long term trends?

How many times has IoA reached capacity over the past month? I'm told not once since the Grand Opening (no reason to question the individual that told me). IoA has a smaller in-park capacity than DAK so if it isn't closing its door then it can't be draining that much attendance from WDW. I'm told that none of the Loews on-site hotels have sold out either during that period except for the opening weekend.

I've no idea how it is actually playing out in central Florida but I doubt that anyone at WDW Co. is particularly worried - yet. I'm sure even the analysts crunching the numbers down in Celebration don't know full yet. There is even the possibility that IoA's gain is also WDW's gain - those folks have to stay somewhere and who's to say that they don't visit WDW as well.

August 10 will tell us exactly what impact competition in Orlando is doing to WDW as the Q3 numbers are due then. Q3 only includes a week or so of Potterland being officially open but you can betcha bottom dollar that Rasulo will be asked about bookings for the rest of the summer and beyond. Otherwise it is pure speculation.

As I said in another thread - I do hope that WDW Co. have misjudged the impact of Potterland as then it will have them questioning their own approach.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

I don't think that any of it matters, although I've also heard annecdotally that WDW parks are very slow (ask how busy the walkways would be if you removed the strollers and ECVs and shut off FP) because Disney's current business model is one that doesn't place any value on quality ... on innovating ... on raising the bar.

It's much more about selling pins at the 1000% profit Lee speaks of (even with all the 99 cents pin sales at the outlets) ... not to mention vinyl and plush -- and more importantly timeshares and dining plans.

Clearly to anyone with a brain, Disney is still hurting badly in FLA. The Weatherman basically said the discounting would be dialed back drastically in 2010 and that hasn't happened as seen by:

--Free Dining Plan for the seventh year in a row (try ever doing away with that);

-- Free Dining Plan extended all the way until a few days prior to Christmas;

-- Offers like hope was talking about where 20% merchandise discounts are being handed out like confetti when people buy food and beverage;

-- 'Normal' discounts like AP/FLA resident going up to cast levels (like 40-45% off);

-- Huge cast discounts on food and beverage at many locales (especially DVC) ... Sanaa, Olivia's, Turf Club lunches at 40% off (which is a great deal at all of the above).

-- Nightastic being dialed back (i.e. less pyro in MK show, the extended hours of DAK just never materializing at all etc);

-- Staffing down in some areas across property;

So ... yeah, WDW isn't doing great, no matter the bull$--t that Iger and Rasulo and Staggs will push.

But trying to make a correlation to IOA opening WWoHP is very difficult. Clearly, it is a huge hit creatively, which is driving financials (the merchandise is flying off the shelves ... and no matter how much goes back to Warner Bros, it is doing wonders for showing what quality, unique items will do ... but at Disney you can buy your Jo Bros CD at Space Mountain and your Jack Sparrow tee at EPCOT!)

Who knows how well Potter is doing on the bottom line?

I don't, again, think Disney cares.

Their business model is one of selling DISNEY MAGIC in countless crappy, cheap, Legacy-defiling ways.

Even if the current Potter crowds stand up right thru 2010, Disney isn't going to suddenly change the way its been doing business since the mid-late 90s.

This is the company that wanted to make it so your hotel or timeshare couldn't be cooled down lower than 76 degrees before they quietly stepped back from that.

It's all about $$$ with the Mouse.

But hey, Cinderella just hugged gramps ... and the nice busdriver gave Brandon a special pin ... and Mickey left a B-Day card in our room at the Poly, so let's not pay attention to the fact Disney barely even seems like they're trying ... because, really ... they're not.

And that's just the way Bob, Jay and Tom like things ...

 

Originally Posted By MPierce

I don't think Mickey is ready to hunker down in a tub of warm water, and open his veins quite yet.

 

Originally Posted By bobbelee9

One night the wait for Peter Pan was 70 minutes.

With stores sending your purchases back to your hotel, it's hard to tell if people are buying or not.

The week we were there was weird. I'm use to Florida rain, a half hour then back to sun. But this trip we had five days where it drizzled or poured off and on all day. I'm sure that had an effect on attendance.

 

Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer

So....we wait for the Q4 earnings?

 

Originally Posted By vbdad55

<<It's silence from all those folks, including some high profile ones here at LP, who were poo-pooing us 6 weeks ago about the affect Potter would have on Disney attendance.>>



6 weeks and the world has changed ?? - let's see 1yr or 2 yrs from now- does it have repeat all over it?
For 6 weeks it could not be that good and still draw huge crowds - and it is acknowledged this is good.

the economy has made a major hit on everything- so it is a good time for WWoHP to look good because especially locals are going to go there to see something new..I would if I were them also. But 6 weeks means little in theme park land