Originally Posted By RoadTrip I will probably like whatever steps Obama takes on Immigration Reform. Not so sure I like how he is going about it. Bush seemed to push the limits on Presidents making laws and now Obama is doing it again. What happens next time there is a Republican President... will he/she push it even further? Maybe we should just elect a President and screw Congress...
Originally Posted By barboy4 ......somebody needs to step up and deal with it. If it has to be Chief, then so be it. And while we are on the topic of foreigners..... I wish he and Congress had the wisdom to put a stop to non US nationals buying up land and/or condos and townhomes here.
Originally Posted By Mr X Hang on - aren't you a U.S. national who bought up land in a foreign country? Talk about do as I say, not as I do!
Originally Posted By Dabob2 For what it's worth, Obama has used executive action considerably less frequently than any of his immediate predecessors from either party. You'd never know it to listen to the Republicans freaking out right now, but them's the facts.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I realize that Obama has not used it that often. But to use it in a "hot button" area that has traditionally been left to Congress, I have some concerns. Sure, it is easy for me to think it is justified. But it would be easy for conservatives to think it was also justified for a future Republican President to do something we all hated. I hate to have the precedent set because we all know the next person elected will probably try to take it even further. Don't let yourself think it couldn't happen. With the dismal turnout of Democrat voters in 2014, who knows what the future holds? On the other hand, it may not matter. It is conceivable that Republicans could score the hat trick in 2016.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***But it would be easy for conservatives to think it was also justified for a future Republican President to do something we all hated*** Since when did politicians worry about justification to do whatever they pleased?
Originally Posted By fkurucz Just read this on cnn.com "Despite an overall wave of support for GOP candidates, 57% of this year's midterm election voters believe undocumented immigrants should have a chance to apply for legal status" Uh ... they've always had the chance to "apply for legal status". It doesn't mean they will get it, but nothing ever prevented them from applying. Is the electorate really that uninformed or do 43% believe that they shouldn't even be allowed to apply?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 < But to use it in a "hot button" area that has traditionally been left to Congress, I have some concerns.> See, I think this is a less radical move than, say, Bush essentially redefining who we are as a country with some of his moves on the national security state, use of torture, etc. I do hope Obama makes it clear that he'll rip up whatever he signs if Congress actually gets its act together and passes its own version, which is the way Obama has always said he preferred it to be done. It's quite possible this is just a giant "get it done at long last or you'll have to live with my way" negotiating ploy. Seriously, nothing else has worked. Not shaming, not the Senate passing a workable bill, not pressure from immigrant groups, not young kids turning themselves in at the border, nothing. They've had all the time in the world to produce something they wanted or, at the very least, vote on a Senate bill that was already written out for them. But no.
Originally Posted By TeaPartyWaves <<They've had all the time in the world to produce something they wanted or, at the very least, vote on a Senate bill that was already written out for them. But no.>> DaBob of course doesn't say that Obama had 2 YEARS where he had the house and the Senate run by his fellow radical Democrats where he could have passed any bill he wanted. DaBob simply is not going to bring that up and the drones left on here will never bring it up either. Classic. Make no mistake...Obama is making a move that will destroy the Democrats for generations to come. Pandering to illegals who will now be able to take American jobs is somehow a good thing for the country? You would think that after his ass kicking Obama would figure it out and act like Clinton. But, you can't take the Chicago Marxist radical out of this freak, so I hope you libs enjoy your time as losers with no influence or power.
Originally Posted By andyll This was done to force Republican's to go on record about immigration reform. There is already a bill... passed by bi-partisan support in the Senate... that Boehner refuses to bring to the house. Republican's have refused to do anything because it's better for them to keep the status quo which allows them to fire up the base about illegals. Now they have to do something.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer I agree, Andy. The GOP is scared of alienating their mouth-breathing base, and they are scared of pushing Latino voters even farther away from the party so they haven't been willing to go on record with an official stance. I think that this could be more of a liability for the GOP in the Southwest and Texas, depending on how they respond to it. It'll still play well among their base, but it isn't their base that they need to rally on their side.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Yep. And Obama making this move makes the politics tough for the GOP. If they still refuse to bring up comprehensive reform, they'll pretty much kiss off the Hispanic vote for a decade or more. This is a growing demographic, and one that they wouldn't necessarily have to cede to Democrats; Bush II got 41% of the Hispanic vote in 2004. Lately they've been in the 20's, and they simply can't win a presidential election with numbers like that. If Republicans continue to stonewall it, that hurts the 60% or so of undocumented people that Obama's action doesn't cover, plus puts even the 40% that it does cover in a precarious position. They can't vote themselves, of course, but their citizen family members and the Hispanic community in general will be far more inclined to vote for Democrats in 2016 if letting Republicans take over essentially seems like a threat. On the other hand, if Republicans actually take this up and pass something, they're unlikely to get much credit for it. Some, sure. Probably better than not passing anything. But the general consensus, I think, will be that they only did so because Obama forced their hands - and that would be the correct consensus. And this is why Republicans are so freaked out. Some probably really do think this is overreach or excessive power by the executive, because they have a poor sense of history and their Obama-hatred doesn't let them see that this is not particularly radical, or that Obama undoubtedly vetted this with lawyers nine ways to Sunday and only did what he could do legally and left the rest of it alone. But the more establishment non-tea-party types are freaking out not because they think it's radical (they know it's not, though they know enough to pretend it is), but because they realize the politics of it is terrible for them. They know they should have acted after the Senate passed its bill, but they were afraid of the base. They're toast with Hispanics now for a decade or more whether they act or don't (the only question will be one of degree), and they don't pick up any MORE votes from a base that would never vote for Democrats in a million years anyway. Among the persuadable, they lose here big time.
Originally Posted By utahjosh I'm not a huge fan of the way Obama is going about it, but at the end of the day I'm glad SOMETHING is being done about it. Having 10 million undocumented people living in our country is no way to keep order and have success in our country and society.
Originally Posted By EdisYoda Now admittedly I have not verified this, but this graphic is pretty telling if it is in fact true: https://www.facebook.com/USSenateDemocrats/photos/a.140299529372583.27744.119747438094459/750223081713555/?type=1&theater What a bunch of hypocrites.
