WDW Blues

Originally Posted By demderedoseguys

Well, here I am again this evening, just back home from a ten day stay at WDW and some things never change. I once again have that sinking, sickening feeling of yet another Disney trip gone by. After almost 30 years of visting, it's never easy to leave.

Even though I had some major gripes for which I will be starting another thread about the tour groups, cleanliness of the parks and rudeness of some CM's, I still love the place.

Next trip is this November.

 

Originally Posted By danyoung

Sir Paul McCartney's secret of life - you always need to have something to look forward to. Welcome home, and start planning!!!

 

Originally Posted By TALL Disney Guy

Well, at least you get to go pretty regularly it sounds like...I've only been there 3 times, and DL once...and never for 10 days!

<---hopes to find bags of money on his way home tonight

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

Hmmm...I read the title of the thread and was hoping that old site that illustrated WDW management's inattention to upkeep, cleanliness and show quality were pointed out.

Oh well ...hope you had a good trip!

 

Originally Posted By brotherdave

Just got back about 3 weeks ago and I'm still longing to return! Unlike demderedoseguys, I won't be returning for probably at least 1-2 years!!

:-(

But, OHHHH, what memories!!!

We've already started watching the planning video again to start planning our next trip, and to make sure to hit the thing we missed on this last trip, (Like a closed Pirates of the Caribbean! It soft-opened just a few days after we left!!! ARRRRRRRRRRRRR!)

 

Originally Posted By ADMIN

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Originally Posted By vbdad55

potc was still closed when we were there this year also - a big miss for me, yet I understand. We went earlier than usual this year ( 1st week of June) and it has done two things- make the summer seem longer - make it seem forver to the next trip.....

nothing like a dose of reality ( work ) when you return home to make one appreciate WDW, warts and all

 

Originally Posted By Skylardad

"Ain't nobody gets outta here without singin' the blues" - Blues Artisit, Adventures In Babysitting

Seriously though, this is what many of us critics of WDW have been trying to illustrate - despite the great memories you take away from your vacation, you are starting to take with you the memories of the sub-standard, un-Disney-like qualities they allow.

This is the kind of feedback I wish WDW management would really listen to and start making strides to fix - especially when many of them are so closely related.

If sub-standard is allowed to continue, it will become part of the culture and that could spell some disturbing, financial news for WDW.

Granted, we plan to return because overall WDW is a superior choice compared to its competition; but, how much of realizing that we are getting less than our last visit can we (and are we) going to take.

I believe that in the near future Iger will get more involved with the operations of the parks and infuse the spirit he has demonstrated thusfar to get the Disney brand back to a quality-driven standard.

I sure hope so because it's sad to see that those of us who remember how much greater the WDW experience was, are constantly pointing out WDW's shortcomings. I hope there will come a time when we start reading posts like "Look What WDW Did - For The Best" or "JII Re-Opens With All Its Glory!"

I think we would all have more fun giving WDW props for being absolutely magical again and making comparisons to our glory days at WDW with the changes of today's park.

 

Originally Posted By DVC_dad

demderedoseguys:

We will be visiting in November as well. What are your dates and would you be interested in a mini-meet? Will you guys be at Boardwalk again? We will be at OKW.

 

Originally Posted By DVC_dad

I am finding that I can't stay at OKW without thinking about vbdad and HIS conch fritters. Greeaaaaaat, the place will never be the same for me now.

 

Originally Posted By Disneymom443

I'm always sad when I leave WDW, and as soon as we leave the gates, I start planning the next trip. Which is 3yrs inbetween trips.

Luckly my next trip is this December. First time in the parks at Christmas..err the day after. I get to see New Years though.

 

Originally Posted By vbdad55

<I am finding that I can't stay at OKW without thinking about vbdad and HIS conch fritters. Greeaaaaaat, the place will never be the same for me now.



<

I just got a customer sat survey for my stay at OKW-- and in the rtestaurant / food section lit them up for the cuts in menu at Olivia's --

 

Originally Posted By demderedoseguys

DVC Dad- We usually go around November 3rd for our anniversary and always stay at the Yacht club, since we burn most of our DVC points by this time every year.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<This is the kind of feedback I wish WDW management would really listen to and start making strides to fix - especially when many of them are so closely related.>>

Why should they care?

Their contracts and bonuses are set up in such a way to reap the rewards personally whenever the quality is lowered and the profits go up.

It's all short-term thinking. It's endemic of American companies today that don't have a vision for the future and only care if their stock goes up a buck now, not what it sells for in five years because they may very well not be with the company then.

 

Originally Posted By Skylardad

<<Their contracts and bonuses are set up in such a way to reap the rewards personally whenever the quality is lowered and the profits go up.>>

Exactly, and if companies don't start looking to the future and maintain or improve quality - especially a company like Disney whose past success and reputation was built on quality - then they will certainly suffer at some point.

Cutbacks in quality and service can only go so far before the consumers who support the company get frustrated enough to go elsewhere. At that point, the set contracts and bonuses will start to shrink.

WDW still has the edge on its competition when you compare the overall experience; however, the competition is closing in.

Sea World has continued to evolve and improve over the last 18 months by redesigning its 2 most popular shows and added 3 new family-oriented rides. They have also broken ground on their new water park.

Granted, Universal has not added much in the last year, other than their new fireworks show and the Seuss Trolley, but they have created some excellent value packages that make their parks much more affordable - like a 2-year annual pass for the price of a 1-year. Plus, they have plans underway to re-design Back To The Future as a Simpson's themed attraction.

Bottom line is the other parks are no longer sitting back and taking it for granted that people will extend their vacations a day or two to go to their parks. They are making strides to be viable forces in taking a piece of WDW's pie.

Bottom line is if WDW wants to maintain its elite status, they need to focus on what really matters to the overall guest experience.

Personally, I don't think announcements of Princess and Pirate overlays like the pirate training with a Jack Sparrow wannabe; a one-in-a-million chance of getting Disney vacations for life; or a night in the castle are worthy enough of conveying a commitment to quality and the overall experience.

These announcements are nothing more than sideshow acts and a sweepstakes. They are not announcements that convey look what we've done for you lately because we are so thrilled you chose us over the competition.

Announce plans for things like the WOL pavillion, new rides (additions, not replacements) and improvements to defunct areas of the parks that use to flourish, or surprise veteran fans with the return of a past attraction and I'll get excited.

If they really want to take a risk and prove that they can be the superior choice, create a "Magical Guarantee" program that pretty much says you are going to love it here or else, no matter what.

I rant because I love the parks and I know what they are capable of doing. I also don't think it would take an unrealistic amount of effort to return them to their peak in quality and service.

There certainly needs to be some reorganization in the company structure, philosophy, and ethics, but it is all very do-able.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74


<<Exactly, and if companies don't start looking to the future and maintain or improve quality - especially a company like Disney whose past success and reputation was built on quality - then they will certainly suffer at some point.>>

I know they already have. I just look at some of the more well-heeled guests that used to look at Disney as a HIGH CALIBER vacation despite the fact it appealed to the masses. They are coming in far fewer numbers than they once did (some of this is anecdotal, some from hard facts). When they come, they more likely to stay off property now that WDW has legit competition in high end lodging. Why would a family want to stay at the fading Beach Club for $300-plus a night when they can stay at the new Ritz Carlton for $199?

I will sometimes complain when something is badly out of order in front of other guests just to see their reactions. For every one that gives me a dirty look and walks the other way, 2-3 others turn and agree with me and stop for a confab. Gee, but hey Al, the guests don't notice that you don't clean the parks anymore. ;-)

<<Cutbacks in quality and service can only go so far before the consumers who support the company get frustrated enough to go elsewhere. At that point, the set contracts and bonuses will start to shrink.>>

I honestly don't know. Disney recycles bad execs like baseball recycles old managers who've been fired numerous times. DLP is a great example of this with a pair of WDW castoffs in charge -- very scary.

<<Granted, Universal has not added much in the last year, other than their new fireworks show and the Seuss Trolley, but they have created some excellent value packages that make their parks much more affordable - like a 2-year annual pass for the price of a 1-year. Plus, they have plans underway to re-design Back To The Future as a Simpson's themed attraction.>>

Universal offers a legit challenge to Disney with amazing rides like SpiderMan, the Hulk, Men in Black, etc ... not to mention higher quality -- and less expensive -- food options.Once you've dined at Mythos at IoA, you'll never look at the table serve locations at the MK quite the same again.

<<Bottom line is if WDW wants to maintain its elite status, they need to focus on what really matters to the overall guest experience.>>

I feel WDW lost it's elite status overall about the time they painted the castle pink, a decade ago. Sure, part's of the WDW experience are second-to-none, but many others have dropped even below mediocre.

<<Personally, I don't think announcements of Princess and Pirate overlays like the pirate training with a Jack Sparrow wannabe; a one-in-a-million chance of getting Disney vacations for life; or a night in the castle are worthy enough of conveying a commitment to quality and the overall experience.

These announcements are nothing more than sideshow acts and a sweepstakes. They are not announcements that convey look what we've done for you lately because we are so thrilled you chose us over the competition.>>

Very well put.

It's all marketing and PR nowadays. Rest assured, WDW will put on a big party in the fall to announce things we've all already known here. They'll wine and dine and ply the media and wait for the positive puff pieces to appear across the world.

That's what they care about. Quality. Exceeding guest expectations? Hah. Sounds good in coffee-table books, but they won't even put that in press releases anymore. Gee, I wonder why.

<<Announce plans for things like the WOL pavillion, new rides (additions, not replacements) and improvements to defunct areas of the parks that use to flourish, or surprise veteran fans with the return of a past attraction and I'll get excited.>>

Those things cost money.

How much do you think the Year of a Million Dreams (or 999,980 free churros, cokes or FastPasses) will actually cost?

Maybe a quarter of an E-Ticket?

<<If they really want to take a risk and prove that they can be the superior choice, create a "Magical Guarantee" program that pretty much says you are going to love it here or else, no matter what.>>

Do you know how many free trips they'd be giving out due to their lower standards?

It's a great idea. One a truly visionary leader, who could put in a team that could back it, would make. But you'll never see it.

<<I rant because I love the parks and I know what they are capable of doing.>>

I do too. And also because I know exactly how seriously these words are watched in Orlando, Anaheim, Glendale and -- Burbank.

<<I also don't think it would take an unrealistic amount of effort to return them to their peak in quality and service.>>

It's very difficult.

Cadillac cheapened its product to the point it was putting out Chevys and Buicks with Caddy emblems in the 1980s. It almost killed the brand. It took over a decade to build it back into a legit premium product.

Macy's has decided to snap up -- and kill -- every regional chain dept store and -- in the process, dumbed themselves down from a mid-level dept store to a low level one.

Heck, McDonald's once stood for quality, not crap.

Disney, due to poor management and consultants, has dumbed its product down significantly in the last decade.

Can it be an elite company again? Sure. Buying Pixar and its talent is a huge step in the right direction. Getting rid of some of the creatively clueless Imagineering souls will help. But, ultimately, it has to come from the top.
Disney's parks division has so much dead weight in positions of authority ... that has to be removed.

<<There certainly needs to be some reorganization in the company structure, philosophy, and ethics, but it is all very do-able.>>

It is.

And we're all going to see how Bob Iger handles it.

He's been on a honeymoon, but that period will be coming to an end once the fall settles in and our gas prices hit $5 a gallon and our supposedly great economy hits the recession it is very due for.

And while Chinese expansion is very smart -- even though Disney has shown an amazing cluelessness in their dealings -- that's not going to excite anyone in the USA except, perhaps, institutional investors.

 

Originally Posted By vbdad55

<<Macy's has decided to snap up -- and kill -- every regional chain dept store and -- in the process, dumbed themselves down from a mid-level dept store to a low level one.

Heck, McDonald's once stood for quality, not crap.

Disney, due to poor management and consultants, has dumbed its product down significantly in the last decade.

Can it be an elite company again? Sure. Buying Pixar and its talent is a huge step in the right direction. Getting rid of some of the creatively clueless Imagineering souls will help. But, ultimately, it has to come from the top.
Disney's parks division has so much dead weight in positions of authority ... that has to be removed.

<<There certainly needs to be some reorganization in the company structure, philosophy, and ethics, but it is all very do-able.>>

It is.

And we're all going to see how Bob Iger handles it.

He's been on a honeymoon, but that period will be coming to an end once the fall settles in and our gas prices hit $5 a gallon and our supposedly great economy hits the recession it is very due for.

And while Chinese expansion is very smart -- even though Disney has shown an amazing cluelessness in their dealings -- that's not going to excite anyone in the USA except, perhaps, institutional investors.
<<


Hate Macy's since they decided to wipe the name of Marshall Field from the retail industry - a man who is important to American History...and most likely dumb down one of the true treasures of shopping..

McDonalds stood more for consistency than quality...and they are focused very hard on the return to that..and have made some progress.

The smoke and mirrors economy has hit the wall - yet I see neither party willing to address the underlying main issues, like 10 million white collar jobs lost to off - shoring in the last 7 years....and the $5/gallon gas may not be far off -- I padi $3.79 for premium yesterday...and those gas prices are showing up in everything from clothes to groceries nickle and diming everyone to death...

p.s. spirit -- do a google on Big Box and Chicago and see the battle Chicago putting up and how they have totally ticked off Wal-Mart -- you'd be proud of us ....the first WalMart after years of wrangling up will be the last one and they might sell it off immediately now anyway....

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<Hate Macy's since they decided to wipe the name of Marshall Field from the retail industry - a man who is important to American History...and most likely dumb down one of the true treasures of shopping..>>

I am seriously considering not shopping at Macy's anymore. I may just do Nordstrom and Bloomingdale's for the good stuff and Target and outlet mall for the rest.

They have killed so many great names (Field's, Burdines here in Florida, Filene's in New England etc ...) and blanded down/homogenized their product at the same time.

It's at times like this I truly feel our best execs are clueless. They look at things from numbers only and PROJECT the future based on that.

<<McDonalds stood more for consistency than quality...and they are focused very hard on the return to that..and have made some progress.>>

I was amazed by the quality of McDonald's in Europe. So much better than the USA. Not even close. Except the one at Disney Village at DLP, that one sucked.

<<The smoke and mirrors economy has hit the wall - yet I see neither party willing to address the underlying main issues, like 10 million white collar jobs lost to off - shoring in the last 7 years....and the $5/gallon gas may not be far off -- I padi $3.79 for premium yesterday...and those gas prices are showing up in everything from clothes to groceries nickle and diming everyone to death...>>

I paid $3.29 for premium here in SoFla today. It's crazy.

But our economy is doing great, right Mr. Prez?

Please tell me how the poor, divorced mother of three who was used to spending $12 a week to fill her 99 Honda is now dealing with spending $36 for the same tank ... it's all gonna come crashing down. But George will be back on the Ranch then ... still looking for the evildoers.

<<p.s. spirit -- do a google on Big Box and Chicago and see the battle Chicago putting up and how they have totally ticked off Wal-Mart -- you'd be proud of us ....the first WalMart after years of wrangling up will be the last one and they might sell it off immediately now anyway....>>

That's great news. I'll check it out.

We are having a few spirited (pun intended) battles in SoFla over WalMart's SuperCenters. I'm fairly certain one won't be allowed, but the other will.

Never underestimate the stupidity of the American consumer.

 

Originally Posted By vbdad55

<I was amazed by the quality of McDonald's in Europe. So much better than the USA. Not even close. Except the one at Disney Village at DLP, that one sucked.
<

because there are not as many outlets -- usually one or two owner operators per country. People with their entire wealth tied up in McD's and they focus. About 15 + years ago the stores in France were so bad that the company bought them all back ( had to fight to get that done) - and found someone else interested to buy them....

Unlike the US where there are still owner-operators that own 25 - 50 and more stores, that is a drop in the bucket of the overall product. And many times when you find a really well run store here...you will find it is corporate owned and managed ( 20%-30% by area) -


The problem started as the old guard started to retire - usually they had at least 1 if not 2 members of senior management that were former employees / burger flippers before college...and also were trained under Ray Kroc....then the dark period came when they placed a finance only ( no marketing or franchise experience ) in the CEO chair - the prototypical MBA ( not naming any names here although I could name them all) - and things went in the proverbial crapper for 5 - 7 years. The had an excellent head man just recently however health issues forced him out at a very early age -- he would have been excellent long term...but even today they are in much better shape and finally that stock is recovering also...

 

Originally Posted By ChiMike

>> I just look at some of the more well-heeled guests that used to look at Disney as a HIGH CALIBER vacation despite the fact it appealed to the masses.<<

This is so true. I was just reading reviews of the Buena Vista Palace after ignoring the property for over 20 years. I simply have not kept it on my radar screen.

When I last stayed there in 1987 the Palace was a top-notch property. Before the massive WDW expansion it was a very well run, clean, resort. The green areas, rec areas, lobby & shopping areas were all meticulous. People weren't staying there on a 70 priceline rate. People were staying there because it was a deluxe resort.

After reading reviews and seeing the relative low room rates it is sad to see how much that entire corner of WDW has fallen from it's quality and get-a-way Floridian resort feel 20-30 years ago.

Even dealing with the present, it somewhat surprises me that with the location the Palace enjoys that someone isn't running that place as a serious, nice alternative to Disney. In the 80s the Palace's management needed to compete against Disney's high standards, in 2006 Disney has lowered the bar, so why should other companies not lower there's, huh