Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<Secondly, you then go on to agree with me by saying "While there are definitely some things that should remain classified because of the potential loss of life", because that's exactly what I said.>> Right, but the problem is that sometimes governments classify things to hide their "dirty little secrets", and sometimes those things need to come to light. I'm definitely not saying that I think Assange should be the arbiter of what's right and what's wrong, but he may see himself that way. Again, I really don't like defending this guy because he does seem scummy, but I just don't get the calls for his death. <<I also think you overestimate the intelligent level of many voters. Tea party, anyone?>> Oh believe me, I don't - I think there are A LOT of very stupid people in this country. But mostly I think that's because they lack proper education - and keeping them ignorant is not helping the situation.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 For what it's worth: "Robert Gates Says Everyone Should Take a Second to Breathe, Spencer Ackerman reports at Wired. "If Defense Secretary Robert Gates had anything to say about WikiLeaks’ unauthorized disclosure of U.S. diplomatic dispatches, it was this: everybody calm down. WikiLeaks’ release of the often-undiplomatic diplomatic cables isn’t a 'meltdown' or a 'game-changer' for American foreign policy, an exasperated Gates intoned at a Pentagon press conference this afternoon. 'Is this embarrassing? Yes. Is it awkward? Yes,' he continued. 'Consequences for U.S. foreign policy? I think fairly modest.'" <a href="http://www.b92.net/eng/news/world-article.php?yyyy=2010&mm=12&dd=01&nav_id=71236" target="_blank">http://www.b92.net/eng/news/wo...id=71236</a>
Originally Posted By HRM Just curious.... Who has the moral obligation and right to divulge sensitive information? Who's arbiter of what the public should and shouldn't know?
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Who has the moral obligation and right to divulge sensitive information? Who's arbiter of what the public should and shouldn't know?<< Well that's the million-dollar question, no? One that will never be satisfactorily answered. When I step back and assess the current situation, I just know that I personally have a high distrust of any large organization, be it government or business. I'm no organizational behavior expert, but I know enough about organizations and power to be wary. Assange is no hero to me, but on the whole, I'd rather have people like him around than none at all. I can see the forest through the trees; Assange may be a tool and specific releases may skirt the boundaries of appropriateness, but I'm not about to condemn the whole because of that.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I suppose all the WikiDefenders think it is OK to publish this type of information also: <<A list drawn up by U.S. officials of companies and installations around the world regarded as "critical" to the security of the United States has been published online by controversial website WikiLeaks. The list includesfactories, ports, fuel companies, drug manufacturers, undersea cables, pipelines, communication hubs and a host of other "key resources.">> Why do we need to know this? What government misdeed is it exposing>? I'll say it again... the CIA needs to take this guy out. NOW!!
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan What I am troubled most by is that there are apparently no shortage of 'leakers' with access to sensitive data who seem to get their jollies handing it off to WikiLeaks. If they weren't handing it off to WikiLeaks, or if WikiLeaks is shut down, it still begs the question about how thorough and reliable security clearances are, who has access to what, and why these leaks are so difficult to trace to the source.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<I suppose all the WikiDefenders think it is OK to publish this type of information also:>> I saw this today, and was actually planning to come on here and mention that I didn't think this was appropriate information for him to be posting at all. Definitely can't see any good reason for posting this type of info. I still don't think he deserves death, but arresting him would probably be a good move. Surely they could charge him with public endangerment or something.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I think this isn't so much about what has already been leaked as it is; what mroe is he willing to leak and does he have a line even he isn't willing to cross? I think that should be everyone's biggest concern.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I still don't think he deserves death, but arresting him would probably be a good move. Surely they could charge him with public endangerment or something.>> Arresting him would certainly be a start. But I'm afraid he'd be out on bail for a year while awaiting trial and he would just continue what he is doing... probably showing even less restraint because now he would have one more beef with the U.S. government.
Originally Posted By Sara Tonin Is this guy a citizen? I don't think it's technically treason if you aren't a citizen or even living in the U.S., is it?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan He's Australian. Also, Swiss bank officials just closed up his account. <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/06/julian-assange-swiss-bank-account" target="_blank">http://www.guardian.co.uk/medi...-account</a> Maybe they should publish his PIN, since he's a full-disclosure kind of guy. ; )
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Assange has threatened a 'poison pill'... a trove of documents that would be released if he were arrested or his site shut down. The documents are protected by a 256-digit key known only to him. There appears to be only one way to stop him... make sure he NEVER has a chance to enter that key.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>The documents are protected by a 256-digit key known only to him.<< 256 digit password? Who could remember that? It has to be: ABC123ABC123ABC123ABC123...
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Unbelievable. Did it ever occur to you geniuses that perhaps Assange is sitting on info that we SHOULD be aware of? Stuff like the Pentagon Papers which Dr. Ellsberg published? And that's why everyone is going after him with both barrels now? The simple fact that far more conservatives and Republicans and corporate leaders are the ones calling for his head than progressives and Dems makes me suspect that this is Dr. Ellsberg all over again. Assange most likely has some very juicy dirt on the powers that be, that would probably send the GOP upswing into a fatal nosedive if leaked out. The corporatists are in damage control mode and doing everything they can to stop him, before their multi-trillion dollar gravy train gets derailed by the WikiLeaks Express. I also believe the GOP defenders in the media are scared sh*tless that Assange will derail their recent progress in taking back control of American government. Calling for his death is overblown, like fixing a hangnail by chopping off the finger. It doesn't add up. As for certain LP posters... you guys are protesting far too much. What are you so scared about what he possesses? I didn't read this level of animosity for the Bush White House when Valerie Plame was outed several years back. So why Assange? What's really behind the vitriol? It ain't rational.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I didn't read this level of animosity for the Bush White House when Valerie Plame was outed several years back.<< Few here defended that at all and there was plenty of animosity over it. The few neocons who did see nothing wrong with it left this site long ago, one way or another.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>What's really behind the vitriol?<< If these leaks were being done in the name of exposing hypocrisy or corruption, that's one thing. But that sure doesn't seem to be the case. Providing a list of vulnerable essential targets such as pipelines and others? Why? Of what good are leaks such as those? I'll throw this back as well: If this guy's leaks are a-okay, then you must be in favor of releasing Scooter Libby from jail.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox I don't disagree with that per se, 2oony. I just don't remember the level of vitriol against the Bush administration for outing Plame as I see for Assange. Some folks here are basically equating Assange to Hitler, and that's simply ridiculous. I believe the outrage is fueled mostly by the media pundits they listen to, even if done so only on occasion. Only the likes of Rush and Beck and the Fox News crowd are calling for this guy's execution. And we all know why THEY are upset with this guy. Their corporate masters are sweating blood over what Assange knows, and are telling their lapdogs in no uncertain terms how their personal success and wealth is tied to the success of corporate. Rush and Beck are fully aware of the source of their multi-million dollar monthly paychecks. No surprise why they're calling for Assange's head. This math is easy to do.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I don't think Rush or Beck need America's corporate world to be successful. Most of their most ardent listerners are in mid-America anyway. There was a lot of condemnation for Plame being outed too as I recall.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<I'll throw this back as well: If this guy's leaks are a-okay, then you must be in favor of releasing Scooter Libby from jail.>> You're assuming that Scooter Libby and Daniel Ellsberg are equal in what they did. Daniel Ellsberg exposed corruption and illegal activity conducted by the Nixon administration. Scooter Libby outed a CIA operative as political payback because her husband wouldn't lie about his findings at the request of Team Bush. The two are completely different. And who's to say that Assange isn't sitting on information similar to what Ellsberg had on Nixon? The fact that the corporations and GOP lapdogs are all over this, calling for his execution, makes me very suspicious. I believe Assange does have information that the rest of us should see, that throws serious light on corruption and illegal activity which major corporate players and GOP politicians have conducted. And I hope it sees the light of day soon, before it's swept under the rug permanently.
