Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I think this is the biggest myth out there: if it gets too crowded people will stop going and it'll hurt Disney. Except APs are a bargain and people will keep buying them.<< Yes, and they're an even better bargain if you live in SoCal. Lower priced AP, plus since you live there, you can go more often. That creates much of the crowding. I've spoken to several longtime Disneyland fans, and all agree that the crowds over the last year especially have become insane. I went in early October, after not being there for about 7 years, my longest break ever. Packed every single day, even weekdays. Went again in December and naturally it was packed, but I expected that. Went again in February and on the weekdays, not bad at all. But the weekends once again were insanely crowded.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>At some point, you just feel like a sucker.<< For me it becomes a question of, do I go and wait to ride things I've ridden countless times in my life? Or do I spend that money going someplace new (and I don't mean another Disney park.) I love Disneyland and DCA and were it not for the overcrowding, I'd visit regularly the way I used to. But now I foresee multi-year gaps between visits. The place means a lot to me, it always will. I have a million fond memories of it, but at a certain point, you have to make choices. We all have only so much vacation money, and so much vacation time. And there are lots of places I have never been, right here in the U.S. Many of those I could visit and enjoy at a fraction of the cost, and certainly with LOTS less crowding.
Originally Posted By ecdc Agree completely. I think that's why jonvn's editorial I linked to has struck such a nerve. I think a lot of die-hard Disney fans hear someone like me complain about the prices and the crowds and they think (or say): "then don't go. No one's forcing you to go and you obviously don't enjoy it." They seem to resent that there are people willing to say they don't like the direction the parks have taken. But here's the thing: I love Disneyland. I don't have a great explanation for why it became my family's destination of choice. We could've gone dozens of other places, but we kept going back there. And each and every time we absolutely loved it and had such a wonderful time together and great memories. The last few times, we definitely noticed more crowds during our usually slow time of year when we visited, but it wasn't outlandish. This last year though...yikes. So as much as a ridiculous, textbook "first-world problem" it is, a lot of us are kind of bummed out and we have to make peace with the fact that Disneyland is not the place we fell in love with anymore. At least, the experience certainly isn't. Right or wrong, rational or not, there it is--some of us forged some of the best memories we have in that place. I'm not sure why I'm supposed to care any less about that than someone who took their kids hunting or to football games or whatever.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>I have to say it is so nice not having Fantazmic showing you can walk again on the west side.<< I can't imagine that having the Big Thunder Trail closed for Star Wars construction is helping the situation any. Previously guests had an outer path all the way around the park, but with that link broken for the time being, everybody going between the east and west sides must be routed through the hub, which is already one of the most congested parts of the park. Add in a few parades and fireworks, and I'm sure it's a mess
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>For me it becomes a question of, do I go and wait to ride things I've ridden countless times in my life? Or do I spend that money going someplace new (and I don't mean another Disney park.)<< With the price of a week at DLR or WDW (especially if you have to fly to get there), you could easily spend a week in Europe. Of those options, I know which I find more compelling (as much as I love theme parks). Sure, there's a little more trip planning involved, but Disney has gotten to be such a hassle that it can take just as much time to sort out the details For many people, there's something familiar and safe about Disney that will never allow it to be replaced. However if one is willing to look a little beyond their comfort zone, they might be amazed by what's out there
Originally Posted By doombuggy One night I mistakenly stayed on the east side of the park when the parade started. Fantasyland was already shutting down so there was that not being able to do.During parade they make you Go clear through tomorrow and to try and cross the Hub And then wait for a break in the parade. Traffic was backed up to Buzz's exit.I am really hoping And I have a gut feeling They will first do construction at the trail To get it open as soon as possible Cuz it really is hurting Crowd control.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip There are quite a few months a year when WDW is very manageable. Combine that with the massive physical size of Epcot, which can hold an enormous number of people without feeling crowded, and I plan to keep visiting WDW for years to come. I like going in January or February anyway to get away from winter in the Midwest, and those are the slowest times of the year. From what I've been hearing about DLR lately, I doubt I could say the same thing.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 I have an app that estimates crowd size that I check sometimes just out of curiosity. Mid-week this Jan. and Feb. have been quite manageable, but weekends still crowded. <And I have a gut feeling They will first do construction at the trail To get it open as soon as possible Cuz it really is hurting Crowd control.> Especially with the train down! That was always one way (literally) around it, but that option is also not there right now. So I agree that getting the BT Trail back open should be a priority. Anyone hear anything about the rumors of a "Rainbow Caverns Tunnel" that the train would now go through between the river and the backside of the FaL Theatre? If those are true, that might necessitate the closing of the trail for longer than we'd like. (But worth it if the rumors are indeed true.)
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>However if one is willing to look a little beyond their comfort zone, they might be amazed by what's out there<< Exactly.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan And less than $20 per month for a SoCal AP? That is incredibly cheap. It's tough to take a family out for a fast food lunch for that amount. The SoCal pass is, I'm certain, the major cause of the overcrowding. But folks much smarter than I have run the numbers, and those cheap passes must translate into lots of food and merchandise sales.
Originally Posted By perlster [noting that there are new sales of the "Southern California" AP] new math? So CA Select : $329/12 =
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<new math? So CA Select : $329/12 =>> Another gem of wisdom from the perister... The actual payment plan is a down payment of $95 and 12 payments of $19.50.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>Anyone hear anything about the rumors of a "Rainbow Caverns Tunnel" that the train would now go through between the river and the backside of the FaL Theatre?<< This is the first time I've heard of it in this situation, but hardly the first time Disney has tried to recreate it. From Big Thunder to Journey to the Center of the Earth to Radiator Springs Racers, it seems like they just can't get enough of attempts to rebuild this part of DL history. Nothing we've seen so far has been particularly awe-inspiring, but I guess there's always hope for something new As far as a construction timeline, I wouldn't expect a significant delay in rebuilding since they have to relocate the tracks regardless. The caverns would be a little additional technical work, but at that point it's only a drop in the bucket
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <This is the first time I've heard of it in this situation> FWIW, the rumors started because of the construction sign (near the Hungry Bear I think): https://mintcrocodile.smugmug.com/photos/i-VhTwsBj/0/O/i-VhTwsBj-O.png Note that it is a revision of the old Mine Train poster that used to say "via the Mine Train thru Rainbow Caverns" but now says "via the Disneyland Railroad." And all the other attraction posters in the area are for current attractions like the Twain, not extinct ones. Now, there could just be a nod or two to the old Nature's Wonderland in the new trestle area of the train that we've seen artwork for. But there's also a rumor of a new tunnel to shield the train from SW land and vice versa, and possibly shield the train from the back of the FaL theatre and vice versa. And it wouldn't make sense to have outdoor scenes in the tunnel... but maybe caverns? Of course, it's also possible that any new tunnel would just be a "plain" one.
Originally Posted By doombuggy I think this just means the bear,beavers and other stuff from that side are being moved to the west banks.
Originally Posted By doombuggy P.S. I'm more worried the Indian village will be a much smaller version with no more story teller.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros Interesting. If they do add a new tunnel, I would expect it to be right next to the new Fantasmic! marina, since they will need to conceal it somehow; they've already shown artwork that shows it hidden in a cave behind a waterfall, similar to the Storybookland maintenance area I'm also worried about the future of the Indian Village, since I'm sure the existing/old scene probably wouldn't be considered PC if it were built anew. I always thought that the storyteller figure was particularly impressive, especially when you consider that it's outside and is only seen by a handful of guests
Originally Posted By doombuggy That's exactly why I loved the Storyteller It's an AA that you can only see from the boats. I don't think It was un PC As it depicted Native Americans at the time exactly how they lived. No different than depicting whites or other cultures in a certain time period. But I get what you're saying there will always be someone out there that will always cry foul
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>I know I sound like a broken record and the day will come when I stop harping on this, but it was such a shocking experience for us that resembled in no way, shape, or form our past times at DL, that it's hard to reconcile the crowds with the fact that we're now overall paying more than double what we did when we first started going to DL regularly 14-15 years ago. At some point, you just feel like a sucker.<< That's pretty much why we stopped going. The crowds are simply overwhelming in Anaheim.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>There are quite a few months a year when WDW is very manageable.<< Was there last summer. While it was busy it did not have that suffocating feel that DL has. I never felt boxed in or trapped anywhere, not even on Main St during MSEP. Compared to DL it was VERY manageable. Now, if only something could be done about that jungle like summer weather in Orlando.
