Colin Kapernick

Discussion in 'World Events' started by DAR1974, Aug 30, 2016.

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  1. DAR1974

    DAR1974 Active Member

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    He decided not to stand for the National Anthem before the Packers/49ers game. He certainly has that right as a citizen. And he did it for awareness. But as of right now the awareness it's brought to the table is what Colin Kapernick has done.

    If he wants to make a real difference donate some time and money(he might get cut so he might have the time) to the black community. Work with leaders and police on a dialogue that can be created to mend relationships. Until then this just speaks of a hollow gesture of a me first athlete
     
  2. Goofyernmost

    Goofyernmost Active Member

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    I can't help but think of the reason that I went into the service and went to a war zone giving up a year of my life. Which was a small sacrifice when compared to those that actually gave their life. That reason was to preserve our rights to have our own opinions that were not in anyway held up for public judgment. All he did was not stand up when a song was being played. Their reason for sacrificing their lives was for that concept not for the music that is played along with it. If this country cannot do what is right, then the anthem, the flag and the very government/ country they represent is not deserving of the demanded respect. He didn't kill anyone or harm anyone else. What he did do was exercise his right to express himself and protest what he felt was an injustice. How does that offend an anthem that was based on the fight for that freedom? How confused are we? We as a society had better start to understand what we are supposed to be supporting before we lose it all.

    What he was actually doing was standing up for the very basis of our government, which isn't a bunch of notes on a piece of paper played by a band. It's the concept of all men are created equal. That's the important thing, that is what we all should be looking at, not a damn song.
     
  3. ecdc

    ecdc Active Member

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    The reason I found so much value in Kapernick's actions is it's a reminder to a lot of people in this country, no matter how angry they may be, that the things that symbolize patriotism, freedom, etc., to them don't symbolize those things to other people. And that's what so many white people in this country just don't get: not everyone views the history of this country the same way you do. History is what it is; it doesn't exist to make you feel good about yourself or to instill pride in you for your country.

    Francis Scott Key was a slave owner. During the War of 1812 the British openly courted American slaves, promising them if they joined with the British they'd be freed after the war. There's a line in the third stanza of the Star-Spangled Banner that openly celebrates the deaths of slaves who had fled to the British.

    Now, if everything had been remedied post-Civil War, if Reconstruction had been a rousing success and all was well, I suspect Kapernick and others would have no problem standing for the national anthem. But (and again, whites often don't get this), these things are connected. The Star-Spangled Banner is not a one-off event that happened and we can all just rest easy. It is, like so so so many other things in this country, a reminder that for generations, black lives have not mattered. They just haven't. So whether it's the Confederate flag or the Star-Spangled Banner or sanitized celebrations of Thomas Jefferson or Andrew Jackson, when we tell black Americans to just deal w/ it, it's just a song or just a flag or just a statue or whatever...it isn't just those things. These things have power; symbols matter.
     
  4. ecdc

    ecdc Active Member

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  5. Yookeroo

    Yookeroo Active Member

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    Do we know he doesn't do this?

    I didn't grow up black, so I really find it hard to criticize someone whose experience growing up in this country was very different than mine. He made a political statement. No one got hurt. I find the outrage over this pretty dumb.

    A crappy one at that.
     
  6. Dabob2

    Dabob2 Well-Known Member

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    KING: If you hate Colin Kaepernick, you must hate Jackie Robinson

    (Jackie Robinson): "As I write this twenty years later, I cannot stand and sing the anthem. I cannot salute the flag; I know that I am a black man in a white world. In 1972, in 1947, at my birth in 1919, I know that I never had it made.

    There we have it. Jackie Robinson the World War II vet, Jackie Robinson the barrier-breaking baseball legend said “I cannot stand and sing the anthem. I cannot salute the flag.”

    I call that inconvenient history. Now, as every talking head in America piles on football player Colin Kaepernick for refusing to stand up for the national anthem, I must ask them this question.

    Was Jackie Robinson wrong? Do you hate him the way you seem to hate Colin Kaepernick?

    Don't tell me “that was a different time.” It wasn't 1945, 1955, or even 1965 when Robinson revealed that he could not and would not salute the American flag, but 1972, after the Voting Rights Act and Civil Rights Act had already been passed. Robinson knew that in spite of the many gains America had been made, it too often failed to live up to many of its promises to black folk."
     
  7. DAR1974

    DAR1974 Active Member

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    He was raised by white parents and lived in the suburbs so his experience wasn't one of growing in the projects.
     
  8. DAR1974

    DAR1974 Active Member

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    The difference is both Jackie Robinson and Muhamad Ali brought action to their words. Kapernick is making a statement to prop up a failing career.
     
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  9. Yookeroo

    Yookeroo Active Member

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    Interesting (and pretty telling) that you think "growing up black" = "the projects".
     
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  10. ecdc

    ecdc Active Member

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  11. DAR1974

    DAR1974 Active Member

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    Kapernick is only black when it fits the narrative for him
     
  12. Dabob2

    Dabob2 Well-Known Member

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    No, DAR, he's black all the time.

    " I’ve had times where one of my roommates was moving out of the house in college, and because we were the only black people in that neighborhood, the cops got called and we had guns drawn on us. Came in the house, without knocking, guns drawn on my teammates and roommates. So I have experienced this. People close to me have experienced this. This isn’t something that’s a one-off case here or a one-off case there. This has become habitual. This has become a habit. So this is something that needs to be addressed."
     
  13. Kar2oonman

    Kar2oonman Active Member

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    Kaepernick actually has done this all pre-season, and until now no one noticed. His intention was to draw attention to the subject of how police officers treat black people. He didn't break any laws. He didn't hurt anybody. If you believe his silent protest is out of line or without merit, ignore it, or argue about why. If you think he draws attention to a valid concern, consider it. But the notion that he isn't black enough, or being black in the right way, or a jerk, or too rich, are just personal attacks to avoid the actual topic at hand. (And as a 49er fan, his behavior over the past couple of seasons -- pouty, sullen -- are a different subject.)

    I don't understand why anyone would believe that patriotism is compulsory. If we all believed the same things, then there'd only be one candidate for president. And I don't think it's unpatriotic to speak up when you think the country is going about its business in an unfair way. We have the right to do so.
     
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  14. DAR1974

    DAR1974 Active Member

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    I've said in the first post he has the right to sit.. But right now that's all he's doing is sitting and just bringing attention to himself and not the issue he's apparently so passionate about.
     
  15. Goofyernmost

    Goofyernmost Active Member

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    Wow, that so far off reality that I don't think it can be found with a team of searchers. Yes, his name is in the scenario, but, until he did that we were not talking about the situation that led to it. Now we are! Seriously, it isn't possible to more wrong about this then you have just stated. He didn't bring attention to himself, by sitting it out. The attention was focus on him because all the terribly misguided, bigots in this country want to be mad at him for being black.

    I've said it before, with the current ruling body residing in Washington, the rich, I've never gone without in my life, jack... running for president, and the type of personal attack mode that self righteous politicians are using instead of addressing the real problems... which is themselves. Nope, I'm sorry, until this country starts to stand for what it preaches the government, the flag, the anthem and all it currently seems to represent is not deserving of respect. Fix it and the respect will return.
     
  16. Kar2oonman

    Kar2oonman Active Member

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    >>But right now that's all he's doing is sitting and just bringing attention to himself and not the issue he's apparently so passionate about.<<

    No, others are making it about him -- his motivations, his sincerity, his attitude -- and attempting to not discuss the actual thing he's protesting. Whether you agree with it or not, he's using whatever celebrity time he has left to speak out about this subject. Would any reporter have asked him about his views on these topics, or given him a forum before? no. Now that he's done this quiet protest and it has captured the country's attention, reporters want to know why he won't stand for the anthem. He gets to explain the reasons.

    He hasn't said anything about himself, other than he won't stand for the anthem, then explained why. You may disagree, but he certainly didn't do anything violent or way out of the ordinary. He didn't burn a flag or use profanity.

    And FWIW I don't think he's being any more fair than people who dismiss the Black Lives matter movement by dismissing the amount of training involved in becoming a police officer. It is much more complex than Kaepernick suggests, the whole issue is more complex than a lot of people are willing to admit. But I do believe that there are police departments with a toxic culture of racism, and those need to be identified and bad officers rooted out.
     
  17. ecdc

    ecdc Active Member

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    Why this bizarre need to impugn the motives of those we disagree with? Maybe, just maybe, he really believes the national anthem is racist. And maybe, just maybe, he believes that these racist totems we have in this country breathe life into our continued systemic white supremacy. And maybe, just maybe, he refuses to stand for the national anthem because of those things. Not because he's an attention whore. Not because he's only black when it's convenient (WTF?). Maybe, just maybe, it's possible for someone to behave in a way we don't always agree with and it doesn't make them a publicity hound, an attention seeker, or even (gasp!) wrong.
     
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  18. Kar2oonman

    Kar2oonman Active Member

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    Well, that said, now he's been photographed wearing socks in practice that feature little cartoon pigs wearing police officer hats. That shifts from a nuanced nonviolent protest into a sort of nasty bit of childish trolling. Again, his right to do so as free speech, but it is an insulting and unnecessary thing to do. It undercuts what i said yesterday.
     
  19. hopemax

    hopemax Member

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    Why do we expect people to behave perfectly ? How many perfect human beings do you know? Some people naturally have more tact and self-awareness than others, but people who don't have those things, do they lose their voice? Does everyone worth listening to have to have an above average IQ and a Communications degree before we listen to someone? Weed out the stupid, sensational, passive aggressive, lashing out stuff that people USUALLY end up doing when they are angry and try to focus on the point? I've started thinking about this with all the revival of civil rights advocacy. Over the years celebrities have voiced displeasure for something for another and the response is, "I don't want to hear any of this from that person." But if an average person in their community said it they would listen. Do celebrities stop being able to participate in the process of trying to improve society? Or it only counts if they have a Foundation or Charity?

    I'd much rather people be "involved" even if they do something wrong in the process of trying to be involved, because most people ARE going to do something that can be called out as wrong, then wait around for the perfect human to come around because we'll be waiting forever. Societal change is messy and imperfect, I wish we'd stop acting like it is possible to do it "the right way."
     
  20. RoadTrip

    RoadTrip Active Member

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    That is why I have some problems with what he is doing. My first reaction (sorry) is to question his motives. Just as I questioned whether Tim Tebow taking a knee to "to thank and glorify God" was more about God or Tim Tebow. I decided at the time it was more about Tebow, and right now I feel this is more about Kaepernick.

    :(
     

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