I think there is a lot more going on besides politics as usual or even cleaning up the swamp. I don't know if I'd go so far as to say a coup. It's very hard to do that without the military, and we haven't had strong statements of support out of anyone. Rank and file military statements I've seen is that they are very upset that the Iraqis that helped their units are now caught up in this immigration ban, and that this is not what they have risked their lives for. But I do think Bannon, Miller and his ilk are taking full advantage of an impotent Congress that is still playing by the old rules, a weakened Judiciary system due to 8 years of GOP obstructionism, and weakened government agencies that come with the territory of a Presidential transition (especially one that changes parties.) So everyone needs to be vigilant and focused on what is important.
This is clearly the case. Now let's say that, because we've elected an easily manipulated egomaniac, terrorist groups can now find it much easier to recruit. And that his closest advisor thinks we need to destroy all of a Islam. One big terrorist attack could lead to a willingness to give the president a lot of power. A big enough attack could very well lead to handing the military over,to Trump. I think there's a non zero chance they pull it off. Bannon knows this. I think there's a very real danger that they would willingly let this happen. And a very real chance that they would help.
But the USA president has already been chief of the armed forces since the 1700's. That is an executive branch power given to him by the Constitution. Once sworn in the president is inherently head of the military. He becomes commander in chief.
The good thing is the military also swears an oath to the Constitution, not to the President, even if he is nominally the commander. So if he issues a clearly non-constitutional order (like, say, "round up all the journalists I don't like"), they could refuse to obey. Some are already on record saying they would refuse to use torture after Trump (then still a candidate) made a point of saying "If I order them to, they will." This is what worries me. His executive order makes a terrorist attack here far MORE likely, not less. And if it happens, Trump will just say "See, I was right!" and demand more powers in the name of "national security" and a lot of people will be scared and willing to agree with him. We need to know this could happen, AND make a stink starting now, continually pointing out that if a terrorist attack does happen here, Trump's stupid and bigoted and provocative policies brought it on and he is to blame. Put that concept firmly in the public's mind. Try, in fact, to make THAT the conventional wisdom. A preemptive strike of our own, as it were.
[QUdon't "Dabob2, post: 1711582, member: 21915"]The good thing is the military also swears an oath to the Constitution, not to the President, even if he is nominally the commander. So if he issues a clearly non-constitutional order (like, say, "round up all the journalists I don't like"), they could refuse to obey.[/QUOTE] But military personnel don't get to decide what is or is not square with the Constitution; that is left to US courts. Military personnel do however have the legal obligation(and ethical) to challenge or not obey something against the likes of a Geneva Convention provision. Furthermore if things go full war then all bets are off. President in all practicality has absolute power. In other words goodbye "Bill of Rights" and hello summary executions, detainment without cause and anything else. Scary stuff to be sure.
They are only required to obey "lawful orders" and/or "lawful commands" according to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Unconstitutional orders are, by definition, unlawful, even if they come from the POTUS. The question is, WOULD they disobey unlawful orders? Let's hope we don't have to find out.
But military personnel don't get to decide what is or is not square with the Constitution; that is left to US courts. Military personnel do however have the legal obligation(and ethical) to challenge or not obey something against the likes of a Geneva Convention provision..[/QUOTE] Like... torture. Like I said. Also, rounding up journalists en masse is so completely and obviously in violation of the First Amendment, that I don't think any military commander worth his salt would wait for a court decision to tell him so. Exactly. Double exactly.
yook, it looks like your trial balloon reference just plummetted to earth. Executive branch fully complies with US Judge directive. Talk about paranoia and premature freak out.
Now, since there is no Constitutional separation of power crisis as of now(like back in the Jackson era) can we please focus on more meaningful things like North Korea and Iran.
It's good that they are (for now) complying with the Court's directive. Of course, they're going for an "emergency stay," which is their right, and ultimately a higher court will almost certainly have to deal with this. And almost certainly Trump will lose this. But in the meantime, there has been chaos, confusion, and plenty of hardship. Over 100,000 visas revoked? Un-revoked for now, but Trump wants to re-revoke them. Over 100,000! Much damage has already been done. People with family (or business) in those countries now afraid to leave the US to visit, fearful they won't be let back in. Hard feelings towards the United States intensified in those countries, and other countries who think they may be next, and even in those people living here who are affected. Increased suspicion among the Iraqis we're ostensibly fighting with as we speak. (Not helped at all by Trump's recent statement that "maybe you (military) will get another chance" to "take the oil." And of course, it plays right into the recruitment strategy of ISIS and groups like it. Even though the order is revoked for now, Trump instantly said they'd fight to reinstate it. The message being "we hate you and don't want you here." It makes a terrorist attack more likely.
So very well put. That is part of this problem. So many people did not even attempt to figure out the ramifications of the "get tough policy". No one thought about the numbers of honest, hard working, legal people that have been hurt and in some cases died, because of such a fool hardy move on the part of the executive branch. But, you know what, this executive doesn't care who he hurts or how many as long as he can try and get his own way. He cannot, like his followers, think beyond today into what this might mean tomorrow. Challenge ISIS like they are nothing more then a bunch of teenage punks by talking tough or taking action that we agreed, as a nation, a long time ago that we didn't want as part of our legacy. They don't care if they die for the cause, because they consider it to be the work of god and he just gave them ammunition to proceed. We cannot combat that with a couple of harsh words. I think that this whole incident of vomiting executive orders and warp speed is just to cover all the campaign promises that were made. They (he) did this thinking that he would just throw them against the wall and see how many would stick.Then when his constituency asks him what happened to all that he promised he would just say, I tried but that pesky old Constitution wouldn't let me. Of course, he is going to say he fought it. In the mean time innocent people had their lives and families disrupted while he sat comfortably in his gold encrusted tower, so could say he tried to carry off atrocities for their safety, but the law stopped him from protecting their sorry butts. He is the most evil person that I have ever had the displeasure to have to accept as our leader in all of my life. When one of our strongest allies, Great Britain has to debate about whether or not they even want him to visit then, Houston... we have a problem. There are a lot of bad ass people out there that would like to see us crushed and if he manages to p iss off enough of the world that we no longer can get their help, we are going down the loser trail folks. No matter how tough we think we are, there are others out there that are much, much tougher and not a bunch of whiny cowards that we have turned out to be.
I think you're not really getting what 'trial balloon' means in this context. They pushed the boundaries to see how far they could go. Now they have more information for the next (bigger) attempt. It was never meant to stick.
