Originally Posted By Darkbeer One of the biggest issues as to hourly capacity will be the loading/unloading of the subs. Each Sub has 40 seats, arranged in two rows of 20. The Left side of the Sub has a staircase in the front of the sub. The right side of the sub has access thru the back of the sub. The Docking area has three stations. So after a trip around the lagoon, a sub will have to wait (if needed) for the docking area to open up (aka Station 3 (the back) is empty at the minimum). The sub could end up at any of the three stations, lets talk about the simplest version first, that is that all three docking stations are empty. The sub would go all they up to Station 1. Once the sub has arrived and fully stopped, then the CM Skipper will ask all the guests to stand up and start to exit via the staircase they used to enter, CM's at the dock will place loading ramps with railings to help assist guests off the subs. Once the sub is empty, then they will start to load the next group of guests, which have been placed in waiting areas in groups of 20 to help speed up the process, similar to other rides, think Soarin'. This will help the CM's figure out where to send different sized groups to get to 20 or close to it per row. The new guests will enter the subs and will be asked to go all the way down to the other end of the sub and take the seats at the far end first. Once the sub is fulled and the CM Skipper verifies that all guests are seated (the CM is the 41st person in the sub) and then signals the dock that the sub is ready of dispatch. Dispatch will only be allowed when multiple CM's hit the dispatch buttons on the dock, similar to other attractions. If only Station 3 is available, then the sub will only unload, and then wait for the other subs to leave first, once they are dispatched, then the sub will be allowed (once again by the dock CM's) to move up to the front, and then load a new group of guests. Most times, if you pull into Station 2, they will both unload and load at the same station. The goal is to get a sub unloaded/loaded in about 2 to 2 and 1/2 minutes, that is a lot to get done, especially when you know some guests will need to take their time walking up/down the stairs, will decide to not move all the way down the row, etc... With 8 subs running, that makes it about 16 to 20 minutes per cycle with a 14 minute show time, but in reality, especially in the beginning, the load/unload process will be longer. Add to that the Alternative Viewing Room holds about 16, depending on the size of the wheelchairs, they watch a video of at least 10 minutes, so you are looking at between 60 to 100 people an hour maximum, depending on how long it takes to empty out the room and place the next group in the viewing room. So you are looking at about 1,000 people an hour using the attraction, under the best conditions, more than likely less, especially if a Sub or two has to be taken off due to problems.
Originally Posted By gadzuux I wouldn't factor in the guests using the 'alternate viewing room' into the hourly count. That thing is strictly a "side bet". What counts is the actual sub attraction. The PPH will be lucky to reach 900, assuming all subs running at all times - a big IF. For every sub that's 101, subtract 120, meaning that if even seven subs are fully operational, the hourly capacity is 750-780 - dreadful, especially if the line extends to 3000-plus. But who cares, right? I'm just forecasting gloom and doom and people will be happy to wait - I've heard it before.
Originally Posted By oc_dean The difference though .. between the subs former era ... and the one getting ready to start in June ... Is Disneyland did not have the kind of crowds it does today. I use to remember the slow off season times very well. It's not like that anymore. And with it .. will come the added aggravation of today's crowds.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss The total number of AP holders is irrelevant. DL has a limited capacity, and all 650,000 aren't going to show up on one day. Aggravation won't change either. If anything, it could be less, because one more ride, even with low capacity, is still another ride the crowd can disperse to. DL guests are used to long waits, especially for new rides. Has everyone forgotton the lines for Indy when it opened? Anyhoo, this is all been said before, and I see little point in going over it again, especially since Disney can't do anything about it, save for installing FP for the ride, and that would only create another virtually discussion.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj So -- after complaining about the subs going away for 10 years, we're going to get to listen to 10 more years of complaints about the capacity not being large enough.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>and I see little point in going over it again,<< You assume anyone who comes to LP has hashed this out huh? I've barely tapped on to this issue myself .. as I'm sure other computer users out there.... but whether the subs are a capacity issue in this era where virtually every day at DL is a crowded day ......... I'm glad they are back .. low or high capacity. I look forward to the future with new projects (DL or DCA) that are higher capacity.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer Actually, the number of AP holders is relevant in a couple of ways... In general, it adds additional guests to the park than prior to the big AP push, basically before the Subs closed. A higher daily average of attendance, along with the same, if not less capacity for the new Sub Lagoon ride is not a good mixture. Then there are the AP patterns, when they reopened the Pirates ride with the new AA's, the few days that the SoCal AP was allowed in before the summer blockout days created lines down Main Street, once they were blocked out, the lines got shorter. With some days not blocked out for the SoCal/SoCal Select AP's in June, those days will have MUCH longer lines for the subs (IMHO) as these folks have seen everything else in the park, and will be willing to wait in a longer line for the subs than a typical out-of-town guest.
Originally Posted By TheParsec I dont care how Large the Lines are going to be, All I know is, the next time I go to Disneyland this year, I'm Riding the Subs at least once!!!!! I've missed the subs!
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<A higher daily average of attendance, along with the same, if not less capacity for the new Sub Lagoon ride is not a good mixture>> The capacity for the subs is at zero now; that's not a good mixture either. <<With some days not blocked out for the SoCal/SoCal Select AP's in June, those days will have MUCH longer lines for the subs (IMHO) as these folks have seen everything else in the park, and will be willing to wait in a longer line for the subs than a typical out-of-town guest.>> It could work both ways, cancelling each other out; some AP may see the long line and decide to ride another day.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>I don't see an issue. It worked for 30some years already.<< Dave, Dave, Dave. So the Submarines worked just fine for 39 years. So what. You have to realize that there are completely different kinds of people in the world today. People that will hate waiting in line for an exciting new attraction. Disneyland cannot afford to make anyone wait, or forego an attraction. It's just as simple as that. All kidding aside, Dave makes a valid point. When the subs opened in 1959, Disneyland had a much shorter attraction count. Although attendance (of both APs and civilians) is much higher today, there are also far more ways to keep them amused. The subs existed before the era of the massive "people eaters" (ie: small world, Pirates, Mansion). The Matterhorn is still a low capacity attraction, yet people continue to wait in long lines that wrap around the moutain. It's just part of the reality of supply and demand. >>Then there are the AP patterns, when they reopened the Pirates ride with the new AA's, the few days that the SoCal AP was allowed in before the summer blockout days created lines down Main Street, once they were blocked out, the lines got shorter.<< Actually, lines got shorter once everyone had satisfied their curiosity about the new AAs.
Originally Posted By gadzuux It's a question of degree. If you take away the specifics of the sub attraction and address the situation in generalities, there must be a 'tipping point' somewhere between how desireable a new attraction is and how many people it can accomodate. For instance, if they opened a whiz-bang new e-ticket that had the hourly capacity of 'dumbo', that would constitute a problem more than a wonderful new addition to the park. Yet that's pretty much what's happening with the subs. We all know the 'whys' of how this situation has come to be, but here we are. Unlike the initial 'fever rush' that accompanied new attractions such as 'indy' or 'star tours', this problem will continue pretty much forever. 'Indy' and 'star tours' could more easily absorb the thousands of guests that were queueing up all day long. The subs can't. Not when they open this summer, and likely not ten summers from now. The capacity on the attraction is much lower by far than will ever hope to meet the demand on all but the slowest days. Trekker's right about one thing - we've sifted through this topic a few times before, and many people prefer to just wave away the concerns and offer comparisons of earlier attraction openings and the long lines of years past, without factoring in how quickly or slowly those long lines were absorbed. This time it's going to be different.
Originally Posted By bean not an issue, there will always be attractions that will not be ridden by most of the guest in the park. That is why Disneyland has dozen more attractions to pick from. There will always be attractions with long lines in disneyland and any other amusement park.
Originally Posted By berol I see why it is an issue as low capacity rides usually have lower interest. Even if it had a capacity of 20 per hour, I don't see how it could have a drastic effect on the park as a whole, more like a little darkening of the color pallette. I consider Rocket Rods running imtermittently a worse problem, but it's not like its lines erupted into lawless riots and cannibalism, pitchfork and torch march on city hall whenever it broke down.
Originally Posted By knoxvelour ok here's an idea How about making the Subs a fast pass only attraction? No stand by line at all. You get your fast pass and once those are all gone, that's it. I'm sure that brings along a completely new set of problems, but it would be a rather interesting experiment.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "So -- after complaining about the subs going away for 10 years, we're going to get to listen to 10 more years of complaints about the capacity not being large enough." Boy, no kidding. Bring on the Subs!
Originally Posted By lasvegasgirl * SIGH * Unfortunately, I will not be able to ride the subs........ I am WAYYYYYY to claustrophobic !!! Just looking at it gives me hives ! I will have to enjoy it through listening to others talk about it when it opens.........
Originally Posted By ni_teach knoxvelour said: "How about making the Subs a fast pass only attraction? No stand by line at all. You get your fast pass and once those are all gone, that's it." But the fast passes would be gone by lunch time. I can just see the line coming out of City Hall with people saying.... "I came all the way from "X" to see that ride..." Let's face facts, Fast Pass will not work with the subs. The only thing that would have worked would have been to change the loading dock (a suggestion of mine 2 years ago) and to make the storage dock also into a loading dock. Which would have given the ride 4 subs to load/unload at a time.
Originally Posted By irishfan Is it going to be possible for them to actually add an extra sub or two to the attraction?
