Originally Posted By DVC_dad I am at a loss of how to handle this. I know a couple of you wonderful LP moms/dads have an autistic child, so I am turning to you for advice BEFORE I do or say anything. I could go on and on but let me just give you the simple situation and you tell me what if anything I should do. My pre-schooler is in a gymnastics class of 8 kids all age 4'ish. My son is getting hit and kicked by this child who is significantly larger and autistic. It usually only happens once or twice per class, but it's a BIG kid and mine is tiny. I am totally sympathetic to the situation however, I can't stand by and allow my son to be a victim. The coach does a fantastic job of handling the class, however, she just can't be in all places at all times for the hour. What should I do?
Originally Posted By DVC_dad I mentioned it to the parent and got an ear full of basically "he's autistic and you need to give him a break"
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom In my opinion every child has the right to be physically and emotionally safe while they are at school or educational setting. If one child, for any reason is unable to control their aggression and is in "unsupervised", then perhaps the aggressive child need not be there. An autistic child present in a gymnastics class is no reason for your child to have to be victimized. It is the responcibility of the parents of the autistic child to make sure that their child is adequate supervised. I think its an unreasonable request that the coach supervise the autistic child. The coach's role lies elsewhere. Therefore, the parents of the autistic child need to step up to the plate and make sure the needs of their child are being met and that the other children in the area are safe. The gymnastic's association need to make sure that children are safe in their facility as well.
Originally Posted By tiggerdis_ I'm sorry, DVC, but being autistic does not give him the right to bully. I'll see if I can create a social story for you. Next time you see the boy misbehave, you read this to him, and you read it to him each time he misbehaves. I don't have a lot of experience with autistic kids, I've only worked with 4 so far (and in varying degrees of functionality), so I'm no expert. Hopefully someone with a bit more experience can give you more help.
Originally Posted By iamsally >> "he's autistic and you need to give him a break"<< I just hate that kind of attitude. I worked one on one with autistic preschoolers for years. One of our main jobs was teaching them that those behaviors were not okay. I know some attitudes have changed and now *some* (Please note that I said some; I do not want to be slammed by parents who are working hard to help their children with behavior problems.) people want their children mainstreamed without admitting there is a problem. "All children are normal, there is nothing wrong, there must be something wrong with you." Gosh, I do not feel like I am helping much but I know from experience that autistic children can and do learn from intense therapy. I also know that I would have a problem with my child being hit. I just don't really know what to do if the parent is not helpful. Maybe telling your little one to say "stop that, I don't like it!!"? I won't advise hitting back but sometimes I think we are selling our kids short by not letting them duke it out for themselves.
Originally Posted By tiggerdis_ This talks a bit about social stories and how they work. If I get to the school today, I will see if we have a "premade" one to send you. <a href="http://rsaffran.tripod.com/social.html" target="_blank">http://rsaffran.tripod.com/soc ial.html</a>
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Thank you for the advice so far, it is greatly appreciated. I agree with your comments Tom. I just don't want to get all loud and make a big deal out of it, and I can't just do nothing, and I certainly don't want to take MY son out of the class. I am feeling guilty that I think the autistic child should change in some fashion or something. Afterall, I am working hard to not blame everything on the fact that he is autistic when I'm not all that educated on what autism is all about. tiggerdis I would appreciate a social story. Thanks! iamsally I would consider allowing letting the kids duke it out, but my son would get killed.
Originally Posted By mickeymeg That can be a tough situation. I don't have my own kids, but I work with Autistic (and other special needs) children. It is unfortunate that the mother had the reaction that she did. A child needs to learn as soon as they are able that being violent is not acceptable. Too often I come across parents that think that their child's disability is a free pass to behave badly. One of the programs I have worked in pairs up children with special needs with volunteers in the community who can attend recreational activities with the child. This takes the pressure off the teacher or activity leader so they are free to give equal attention to every member of the class. The child then has the support they need to stay focused on the activity and someone to intervene should it become necessary. Usually it would be the parents responsibility to find such a program for their child, but maybe in this situation you could suggest to the coach that she look into it. As much as it is possible I would suggest that you react to the situation like you would with any other child. Of course it is important to be sensitive about his autism (and it sounds like you are great about that) but at the same time he can't be allowed to be violent towards other children. I hope that helps a little. -Meg
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Your child has a right to be emotionally and physically safe this participating in school or social settings. If any child is unable to control their aggressive behaviors then perhaps they need not be in a gymnastic class. I think its not reasonable to expect the coach to supervise an autistic child. The role of the coach lies elsewhere. Therefore, the parents of the autistic child needs to make sure that their child's needs are being met and that the other children around their autistic child are safe. The gymnastic association also needs to make sure that all children are safe while in their facility as well. So the parent of the autistic child and the superiors of the gynmastic association have a vested intrest in making sure everyone is safe in that class.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Sorry, I wasn't sure that my first message made it through.. so I posted again.
Originally Posted By iamsally I am happy to see that the people here are leaning toward not accepting this behavior. As and educator I have been faced with mainstreamed children who have taken up way too much of my attention. At the public school level there is little to be done. And no, DVC dad, I would not suggest that my child hit back if I knew he would be creamed.
Originally Posted By twirlnhurl Are there other gymnastic classes that your child could enroll in at a different time? Clearly, this is mostly the responsibility of the parent of the autistic child, and since they are not willing to act in a responsible manner, the best you could hope to do is remove your child from the situation.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Exactly, psychological damage is much worse than physical damage. And in this situation your child has no way of knowing when this autistic child is going to strike.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Well there are other classes, but I have three other children in gym classes at the exact same hour. I would either have to make the others wait for the one, or change all four. I am hoping that isn't necessary, but I'll do whatever I'd reasonable. I think I am mostly trying to shape what reasonable expectations are based ok what ya'll say here on LP.
Originally Posted By mickeymeg Autism affects the way the brain processes information. This can affect the individual in about a million different ways. Usually a person with autism has significant difficulty forming any kind of relationship with other people. They can be very egocentric and simply not understand the 'purpose' of others in their life. They have a lot of difficulty with meaningful communication. They often have difficulty processing change however small or large. Autism does not ever mean that a person is violent for the sake of being violent. Hitting may be a way this child is trying to communicate, however they need to be taught that this is absolutely not acceptable. Using their autism as an excuse puts the other children around him at risk and does nothing to help him learn to operate like a 'normal' child. I don't know how much participation you have in the class, or what the coach is already trying but I will offer this if it helps a little. One child I worked with was diagnosed as having high functioning autism, but he could not understand when someone told him something like 'don't put your feet on the desk'. This left to much open to interpretation, What should he do with his feet ? his next usual response was to kick the person closest to him. Telling him instead to 'keep your feet on the floor' resulted in him doing what he was asked as continuing with the activity. A lot of the time a child with Autism can happily participate in activities with other children. It is just a matter of determining what kind of teaching style is going to work best for them. I sometimes wish it were allowed to scoop up parents that were defensive about their children, such as the one you describe and send them to a place that could have them truly understand that they are doing more harm than good when they allow their children to act violently with no consequences. It sounds like you are doing a wonderful job of being aware of this child's disability while protecting your own. Both children have the right to participate in a safe activity. You have already approached the parent, I would say your next step would be to approach the coach and see what options there are for having an extra person on hand to help with this child. If they have accepted the child with special needs in to their class they need to be willing to provide support for this child so that all the children can enjoy the class. -Meg
Originally Posted By sherrytodd There is absolutely no reason that your child should be subjected to a violent situation. You certainly want to be empathetic of the autistic child and the parents, but that does not give them open reign over everyone else. I do agree that if the gymnastic program has accepted the autistic child, then they do need to be prepared to provide the additional support and supervision that the autistic child requires even if this simply means requesting that the child has a parent present during the class to provide additional supervision and guidence. If they can't provide this and the child is a danger to another child, then they should not be in this program. There is nothing that justifies subjecting another child to violent behavior.
Originally Posted By beamerdog >>As and educator I have been faced with mainstreamed children who have taken up way too much of my attention. At the public school level there is little to be done.<< In Delaware, if this child were deemed to be able to be mainstreamed (which I don't think he would be - we have a good program for autistic children who are not able to be mainstreamed), and he still needed extra supervision and/or instruction, the state would pay for a educator/buddy to accompany this child everywhere. This has been done numerous times for many disabilities. My son has Aspergers (on the autism spectrum, but a separate diagnosis which excludes autism) and was picked on, even in two private schools he attended. Let me tell you, those kids got in big-time trouble and were in-house suspended for a week. He was always the one to get picked on. He wasn't mainstreamed until 10th grade and that school was wonderful. He graduated with several academic awards and also participated in an award winning chorus which traveled to WDW for competition among other destinations. It was a public school with a very diverse population. He didn't need academic help and the kids liked him for who he was. They had no problems with calling him for help with their work. Are you the only parent having problems with this? Maybe you can get together and express your frustration with whoever is ultimately responsible for the group. It's aggravating to me how many parents of disabled children have inappropriate age related goals for their kids. It's not like the kid won't eventually "get it", but it might not be right now or even ever. And it hurts the kids like my son, who waited until he was truly ready, but creating preconceived notions about how difficult "these" kids are going to be. ack, i'm ranting, sorry.
Originally Posted By ophellia Please NEVER accept Violent behaviour with the excuse that Autism makes it okay...No Way..my youngest son is autistic, Aspergers...and his saving grace has been people expecting AND only excepting the Best he has to offer, not the worst, or Any kind of violence, ever...request a new teacher, one with experience in Autistic kids...never give a person free room to abuse whatever the condition their condition is in...there are so many places you can go without this being an issue...my son is a 19 year old college student with a bright future, maybe bacause we did not just turn an accepting eye to any aggessive actions...
Originally Posted By beamerdog Here's a good site which describes Aspergers: <a href="http://users.rcn.com/aane12/description.html" target="_blank">http://users.rcn.com/aane12/de scription.html</a>
Originally Posted By ophellia beamerdog, my son's Dr says Aspergers in on the spectrum and includes the top 3 percent...any info or website to speak of Not being Autistic??? I do not underdstand why you say it excludes Autism? Help? I would love to be informed...? He prefers the term Autistic to Aspergers...?
