Originally Posted By Doobie This topic is for discussion of the October 10th Jim Hill Column. This article is at: <a href="News-ID115520.asp" target="_blank">http://LaughingPlace.com/News-ID115520.asp</a>.
Originally Posted By Labuda Great article, Jim! I love your writing, and am sorry I never read you until you came here to LP. no worries aobut the Mupptes series - though I'm looking forward to reading more about the Muppets, your articles in the interim are great! Thanks for the history on Paradise Pier - I'm not really familiar with Disney's previous plans for parks that were never built, so it's cool to see stuff like your current article, detailing the common thread that has woven through previous parks that were never realized up to DCA. Also, having read today's article, I'm more likely to stick around Paradise Pier for more than just Screamin' & the Sun Wheel. I likely won't go on any of the other rides, but would like to just spend an hour or two wandering around the Pier area, looking at all the detailing that the Imagineers have worked so hard to get just right for us. -Ann 56 days to DL & DCA!
Originally Posted By Labuda (Wow - I almost beat Doobie's post detailing what this thread is for! heh)
Originally Posted By woody It still LOOKS cheap. A cheap carny section without much thought to ride capacity, customer enjoyment, and entertainment value, or much shade when it opened. I don't know how much they spent, but carny rides don't add much to Disney's reputation for immersive theming and spectacular rides.
Originally Posted By leemac Cheers for the cool article, Jim. As a foreigner who loves the park, I really enjoyed the detailing like the billboards, plussing and character of this Land. It felt right to me and each of the rides has an added Disney twist...the Sun Wheel with its swinging buckets, Maliboomer's theming and the great old fashion woodie that is a moden state-of-the-art steel job. I just don't see where people get this stupid "carny" ride thing from. These are the same dweebs that seem to think that Mermaid Lagoon at TDS is fantastic. It is a superbly themed area, but features rides and shows that are simply themed off-the-shelf jobs. Six Flags can chuck up steel coasters all year round because they invest none of their time and effort in the design and leave everything down to their contractors. However, even they in recent years have tried to theme attractions that have failed (Batman anyone....a cardboard Gotham City?). I like the fact that WDI can take a traditional ride and make it all their own. Let's just give the park time to grow up and change instead of keep rattling on about how cheap the park is. Just don't go, nobody is forcing you to visit the park and frankly, without you guys, it will make my enjoyment of the park so much better without hearing people bitch about it all day long.
Originally Posted By tangaroa I dont get it. Jim you said that Disney wasn't planning to add Paradise Pier because of budget concerns, and then decided to simply quote several times that the idea popped up in concept art and blue sky ideas. You never actually explained WHY it was choosen for DCA, or how it wasn't directly linked to doing things cheaply. Isn't it entirely possible that the idea for a seaside amusement park was choosen as a theme for all these areas because it was cheap to build? If anything it just proves how unimaginative DCA really is. All of it's best ideas are borrowed from other failed projects. And I still don't agree that the latice work on Screamin should be considered 'themeing'. No one goes to Knott's and looks up at Ghostrider and says "gosh that giant support structure really enhances the old west theme!" Just doesn't happen.
Originally Posted By woody >>And I still don't agree that the latice work on Screamin should be considered 'themeing'. They could have built a real woodie instead of a fake one.
Originally Posted By tangaroa ""They could have built a real woodie instead of a fake one."" I wonder why they didn't.
Originally Posted By DisneyAce Hey Jim, 2 words.... ""'NUFF SAID"" While I'll admit I am curious about the cost of the entire pier, the numbers I got on Scream'in defintily suggest 6 Flags would not buy one and Knotts wouldn't even afford one and I doubt the two parks mentioned would be willing to cough up the money for a Sun Wheel (Not at every amusement park like some have quoted). Again Jim, great article and look forward to more.
Originally Posted By WrongWay Maybe a lot of time was put into the theme. That doen't make it a good theme. My mom has spent a whole day making a meal that the dog wouldn't eat. I think the idea of using "amusement park" as theme is a poor theme. There are lots of 1920s carousels and ferris wheels in existanse at amusement parks. If they did spend a lot of money on this area, then perhaps it was money poorly spent. Hopefully all the hoopla over the dislike of the area will keep Disney from theming an area to look like an amusement park again. Like DAK. Nice try. Didn't work. Don't do it again! As far a Knott's not being able to afford expensive rides? Well, being from the midwest, I go to Worlds of Fun alot. Both that park and Knott's are owned by Cedar Fair, the owner of Cedar Point. Cedar Point has the tallest, longest, fastest, most expensive coaster in the U.S. If they wanted to put screamin' in at Knott's, they most certainly could afford it.
Originally Posted By sjdimon I agree with Jim. PP is VERY PRETTY. I also agree with the folks that say "it isn't Disney." How can I be in both camps? Easy. For what it is, PP is done very nicely. It's a clean, well-integrated, reproduction of an old Boardwalk. Problem is (at least, for me), there's nothing there that I am interested in riding (except, perhaps a stationary car on the Sun Wheel). I don't care to be spun, launched, spun, swiveled, spun, turned upside down, or spun (did I mention that I don't like spinning rides?) Just because I don't fine anything to do there, doesn't deter from the fact (IMO) that it is very pretty. In fact, I found all of DCA to be very pretty -- a LOT of eye candy. It was getting beyond the look of the place and into the actual attractions themselves where it began to fall off (we really enjoyed the Hollywood area though -- wish there was more to do there (the Animation Attraction (sorry - I count the WHOLE thing as ONE attraction -- just like INNOVENTIONS is one attraction with many "areas") is a great example of doing it right and doing it better (than at D/MGM)). WIth this as an example of how things can be, I have faith that the entire park will get better and better so that in a few years, we'll look back and laugh at all the negative things being said....
Originally Posted By MackAttack Disney wanted to build a true wooden roller coaster, but the city would not allow them. By the way, I have heard so many guest say they think that Screamin was a real wooden coaster and to their surprise when they find out it isn't. To be honest, Paradise Pier actually gets the highest positive guest remarks on the surveys. So, despite some of you here that simply HATE this land, it is nice to see that it is playing well to the audience that it was intended for... the average Disney guest and not the fanatics.
Originally Posted By tangaroa "To be honest, Paradise Pier actually gets the highest positive guest remarks on the surveys." Well that would make sense because it's the biggest area of the park. "So, despite some of you here that simply HATE this land, it is nice to see that it is playing well to the audience that it was intended for... the average Disney guest and not the fanatics." The average Disney guest doesnt' go to DCA.
Originally Posted By DisneyAce Wrong Way.... I know this iis off topic Millieum Force I believe this the coaster you are refering to at Cider Fair 'Flagship' park of the chain. I won't knock that coaster, but the price range I got from several sources were in the upper 20-lower 30 millions of dollars. That is currently the Flagship coaster for the park, which I love as a coaster park. Ghost Rider (Knotts Flagship attraction) cost with the surrounding area, again based on several sources, mid $20 million. Screamin'in based on what I was told cost in the upper 40 million-low 50 million. Again, these are sources numbers, not blue-sky ones. Cider Fair has money to ponie up for a Scream'in, but based on recent figures, I believe they would not do it, especially after recent comments about how the company was looking to cut back some. Though from what I was told about a new hyper coaster for Knotts in the near future, all that could change.
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Originally Posted By tangaroa "To be honest, Paradise Pier actually gets the highest positive guest remarks on the surveys." Well that would make sense because it's the biggest area of the park. "So, despite some of you here that simply HATE this land, it is nice to see that it is playing well to the audience that it was intended for... the average Disney guest and not the fanatics." The average Disney guest doesnt' go to DCA.
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Originally Posted By hopemax I do wonder what the "Average DCA" guest is compared to the "average guest" at any of the other parks. DCA has required tons of promotions to get it's attendance (free CM tickets, ending of the CM blackouts, free child AP tickets, free child with purchase, etc). The necessity of these promos has to have an effect on the demographic of people coming to the park, their likes/dislikes. Do "average Disney guests" usually require free tickets during the summer months? Or is there no difference in the percentage of "free or discounted" guests between DCA/DL and even the WDW parks?
