Originally Posted By Darkbeer I found these interesting comments over at the Orlando Sentinel Web Site. >>Growing up in southern California, I knew that Disney catered to locals. It used to be true here in Orlando, from what I've heard and hoped would be true. But since moving to Windemere with backdoor access to WDW, I've noticed a disturbing trend, which Sentinel reporter Scott Joseph articulated so well in his review of Citricos. Well said, Scott. As frequent Disney guests, we notice the second-class treatment just because we're not staying on-site. It's been especially apparent since the promotion of the pervasive "dining plan." It's even worse if you're adults without children, which was not always true. I loved how Scott highlighted these points. No wonder we've discovered since moving here we'd rather come in from out-of-town and stay on-site--so maybe that's their plan. But with that Disney mindset, aren't they missing out on a ready-made, lucrative business segment from locals? Maybe they don't need our money. It's often difficult to gain access to the resorts if you're not a guest. If you're dining at one of the resort restaurants, it's a bit easier, although sometimes we just want to have a drink at the bar and soak up the atmosphere. The good news, though, is that the Disney Dining Experience card now includes bars, lounges, and all sit-down restaurants in their plan and, therefore, you can use the valet parking. This greatly enhances the local experience. In the end, being a local at Disney is a mixed-bag. And while in our early days of visiting Disney on day trips we seemed to solicit a knowing grin when we said we were "locals," today it just seems awkward. So, instead of using the "l" word, maybe we should just say we're from "fill-in-the-blank." It might go over better with those used to reciting a Disney script. << Yes, I know that WDW sells discounted AP's and some other from of ParkHoppers to folks who live in Florida, but with all the "extras" given just to the Hotel guests, has WDW created a two-tier system?
Originally Posted By Darkbeer Oops, forgot the link... <a href="http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/community_windermere_blog/2007/02/does_disney_wel.html" target="_blank">http://blogs.orlandosentinel.c om/community_windermere_blog/2007/02/does_disney_wel.html</a>
Originally Posted By trekkeruss I read both stories, and I fail to see any discrimination in either case.
Originally Posted By bayrr326 I guess it depends on your point of view. I am a local and I am not a big fan of the dining plan because I feel the sit-down restaurants have gotten worse ie-pushing people in and out as fast as possible, menus that have shrunk down to 4-5 entree choices when there used to be 7-10, except for a few restaurants most are not worth the money anymore. Whereas i feel you get a much better deal on food at Universal and they actually give the passholders a discount you don't have to pay for some extra card. However, if they don't care about local business then why have they been heavily pushing the annual passes since last summer. They seem to want to boost there local business to help make up for the slow times and the definately need them if there is another slowdown. They relied alot on Floridians during the slow down after Sept. 11th and offered some amazing deals to the locals to get them to come to WDW. Since we do not have as many passholders we are not as large a vocal powers as the passholders at DL. However, with the rise of DVCers combined with the locals you are gonna end up with hopefully a very vocal group that will take WDW management to task for the often asanine cost cutting and greed.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<I feel the sit-down restaurants have gotten worse ie-pushing people in and out as fast as possible, menus that have shrunk down to 4-5 entree choices when there used to be 7-10, except for a few restaurants most are not worth the money anymore.>> Absolutely no disagreement that the dining plan has caused some bad changes, but the changes affect everyone, not just locals.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj WDW used to have an off-season. That's when the locals were "welcomed" to fill up the restaurants and parks. Lately, there is less and less of an off-season at WDW. The year-round convention business, increase in overseas travlers, and families willing to take their kids out of school to vacation have swelled the "off season" attendance at WDW so that there is less of a need to seek out the locals to pad the attendance. 2006 was a particulary notable year for "off season" attendance since a large percentage of the convention business that would have normally gone to New Orleans and the Gulf Coast ended up in Orlando. In the 80s, the Disney financial statement for the late Fall and Spring months usually showed theme parks operating in the red during the "off season." That's not the case anymore. At Disneyland, they rely on the SoCal promotions to prop up attendance. At WDW, they have the convention and DVC business that attracts folks from out of the area.
Originally Posted By Brian Noble Not a local, but typically am an "off-siter". My family cannot fathom staying in a single hotel room for a week, and the onsite prices for anything allowing us to spread out some more more than I'm willing to pay. I don't feel second-class, and I've never had difficulty visiting a resort, either. I just tell the gatehouse staff that I'm there to take a look around, they give me a three-hour pass, and off I go. No worries. In fact, it seems much easier to visit a gated WDW resort than most gated communities offsite. I don't begrudge WDW the ability to try to promote their resort rooms with perks. For the most part, those perks have little value to me. The one that is of use from time to time, Extra Magic Hours, can be had for the price of a night or two in a Value room that I don't actually use, because who wants to sleep in a 260 square foot box? Even with this additional expense, I still end up paying MUCH less than I would for onsite lodging equivalent to what we get offsite.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I read both stories, and I fail to see any discrimination in either case.>> No. There wasn't any discrimination. But both stories told the tale of the continued dumbing down of WDW dining (thanks consultants ... the check is already in your accounts!) that just keeps going forward. It also shows the continued desire of WDW management to make life more difficult for people (naturally, more likely locals, Fla residents and APers) to get simple requests processed. I'm amazed that it took Scott Joseph so long to notice how INCONVENIENT it is to simply make a dining reservation. You must first go thru a menu of just to get to another menu before you get put into the queue. Then, you get a Destination Disney CM, who needs your name, address, phone number, number of visits, last time visited and what resort you are staying just to book a lunch at Alfredo's. It is a royal pain in the brass. And while great at collecting data for the Mouse to use as he sees fit, it is very guest unfriendly. Naturally, if you're a family of five from West Orange, N.J. calling exactly 180 days out to make 12 PS for your week stay at the Poly, it might be considered less so. But, again, WDW is supposed to treat all guests alike ... and this is yet another example that they don't. And as one of those Florida residents who has helped support the Mouse in both the good times and the very, very bad (like two weeks after 9/11 when I was the only one having dinner at The Mara at 6 p.m.), I resent the constant push to make it more difficult for me to give my $$$ to the Mouse. It's just bad business.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 We got to WDW 9/16/01, one noon time we had Epcot practically to ourselves. My 2 daughters, 2 granddaughters and I had a "private showing" of Italy's Masqurade show. We felt so bad that they had to do it only for us. No need for fastpasses that week. The Poly was only 30% full.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I think WDW treats locals pretty well. A Florida Annual Pass (with no blackout dates) costs over $100 less than an annual pass for non-residents. I agree that the DDP is a travesty, but that impacts tourists at least as much as locals. Locals can escape to excellent restaurants with reasonable prices off of Disney property. If you are staying on property without a rental car you are pretty much captive to Disney restaurants. If you forget to make your reservations 180 days out you may end up spending your week eating in food courts.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I think WDW treats locals pretty well. A Florida Annual Pass (with no blackout dates) costs over $100 less than an annual pass for non-residents.>> Uhm ... I don't think they do. At one time (like maybe the 80s into the mid 90s) they did. And again, from 2001-03 when they were desperate. But otherwise, nope. And a $100 savings on an AP is nothing when you consider than a Florida resident is likely to visit far more often and spend more in thelong run. What bothers me is the fact DVCers now pay as little as I pay as a WDW AP Charter Subscriber ... so my loyalty for decades gets tosses out because I haven't given the Mouse $25,000 for a timeshare. Same with opening up the DDE for everyone. What was started in 1995 as a program for LOCALS to take advantage of the great dining available at WDW is now just a 20% discount card for anyone. Even Fla. resident discounts (and AP as well) have become watered down by so many generic Disney discounts to fill rooms. <<I agree that the DDP is a travesty, but that impacts tourists at least as much as locals.>> No denying that. <<Locals can escape to excellent restaurants with reasonable prices off of Disney property. If you are staying on property without a rental car you are pretty much captive to Disney restaurants.>> Well, I don't think it's very smart to visit WDW without a car but, naturally, Disney would prefer that you didn't have one. <<If you forget to make your reservations 180 days out you may end up spending your week eating in food courts.>> And ultimately that's why Disney dining is being WalMarted. The Spirit misses the 1980s when ONLY APers (who were mostly FLA residents by far) could make reservations (real ones, not PS) and only two days in advance.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<<<I think WDW treats locals pretty well. A Florida Annual Pass (with no blackout dates) costs over $100 less than an annual pass for non-residents.>> Uhm ... I don't think they do. At one time (like maybe the 80s into the mid 90s) they did. And again, from 2001-03 when they were desperate. But otherwise, nope.>> I got the Annual Pass prices from Deb Will's site. I don't know for a fact that they are accurate, but she is usually pretty good. <<What bothers me is the fact DVCers now pay as little as I pay as a WDW AP Charter Subscriber ... so my loyalty for decades gets tosses out because I haven't given the Mouse $25,000 for a timeshare.>> Well I should HOPE we get more. We paid $25,000 for a timeshare you know!! ;-) Not to mention that DVC’er AP's are even cheaper than Florida resident AP's. But you didn't really want to know that, did you?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I got the Annual Pass prices from Deb Will's site. I don't know for a fact that they are accurate, but she is usually pretty good.>> No, Trippy, I wasn't clear. I'm sure the prices are accurate. What I meant was the $100 savings isn't a big deal when you consider that the average Florida resident passholder visits a lot more than the average non-resident (who usually visits only 1-2 times per year). <<Well I should HOPE we get more. We paid $25,000 for a timeshare you know!!>> One thing should have nothing to do with another. WDW wasn't supposed to be just a timeshare scam ;-)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^Above comment aimed at VBDAD ... anyone know what happened to the thread where he said he was leaving? I was about to respond to it last night and then it suddenly didn't exist. It disappeared faster than a turkey leg for a family of six at WDW.
Originally Posted By Labuda re #11 - holy frijoles - I thought you were wrong about paying the same amount as DVC members for your AP renewals. And, sadly, turns out you're right - you pay MORE for your CHARTER AP renewal than DVC pays for the AP by about $10 and you pay about $40 more for your renewal than they pay for their renewals! That is a travesty - I don't care if they invested $25K or more - YOU HAVE BEEN AN APER SINCE DVS WAS A GLEAM IN SOMEONE'S EYE!!!! That's just wrong, man.
Originally Posted By danyoung >It's often difficult to gain access to the resorts if you're not a guest.< I don't understand this. It's never been a problem to gain access to the WDW resorts. If you're by car, just tell 'em at the gate that you're sightseeing. And you can get in by monorail, bus or boat from anywhere with no required ID. And I agree with others who have said that the growing bad things about the DDP affect the tourist as well as the local.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer Kevin Yee has a very interesting article dealing with the DDP today over at MiceAge... <a href="http://www.miceage.com/kevinyee/ky021307a.htm" target="_blank">http://www.miceage.com/kevinye e/ky021307a.htm</a> >>And one of the very first things that I notice when I start to ruminate on the state of dining at WDW is that it's an increasingly broken system for anyone who fails to plan every contingency far in advance. Simply put, the system is now punishing anyone who doesn't plot out every single detail of their visit ahead of time. Spontaneity, and indeed possibly even relaxation itself, is out the window. The very definition of a Disney vacation is changing. Much like FastPass, the combination of the current reservation policies and the Disney Dining Plan (not to mention the "freebie" version of the DDP we saw last year and will probably see again soon) is completely changing the face of a Disney vacation.<< Much more at the link
Originally Posted By Darkbeer And more from the Orlando Sentinel Blog... <a href="http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/community_windermere_blog/2007/02/disney_for_vale.html" target="_blank">http://blogs.orlandosentinel.c om/community_windermere_blog/2007/02/disney_for_vale.html</a> >>If you're planning on taking your sweetheart out to dinner for Valentine's Day, I hope you already have your reservations--especially if you've chosen a Disney restaurant. With the popularity of the Disney Dining plan, many restaurants are booked way in advance. For example, we used to be able to make an ADR ("Advance Dining Reservation" as Disney calls it) for Le Cellier the night before, but lately even a week ahead isn't far enough in advance. And if you've been on Disney property this week, you'll notice the crowds are quite high. We stopped in at Downtown Disney around lunch time on Sunday and it was as packed as if it were Christmas. Even onsite guests are complaining about this new push for the dining plan because they have to book restaurants so far in advance that there's no room for spontaneity. Heaven forbid they should later change their mind about their dining plans and want to rebook. And if you've been following the conversation about the Does Disney Welcome Locals post on this blog making its way around Disney blogs, including The Disney Blog, you'll see others share this opinion. In fact, one author mentioned on Mice Chat how good the timing was because he was writing an article about the dining experience. They've been having a very interesting, productive conversation over there, and I must say it's nice to see that others understand where we're coming from. If your closest entertainment complex just happens to be Walt Disney World, then you want to be able to drive up, park your car, go in, have a drink and/or a meal, and do some shopping. It's not like we're freeloading--the money we spend adds up to some serious cash, too. It's just spread out over the year. And the better access we have, the more everybody profits.<<
Originally Posted By Labuda ^^^ Even when @ WDW during the free dining last fall, I was able to change plans at the drop of a hat and book restaurants the same day in every case we wanted to change our sit-down meal for the evening.
Originally Posted By irishfan ^^ Thats reassuring, I'm going in less than a month, and haven't even thought of the dining issue, must get on it.
