Originally Posted By WorldDisney Hello there, my first real DCA topic in years lol. But since I been back there a few times now since last month and seeing the changes (and bulldozers) first hand, its made me reflect on where DCA been and where its going in a few years time. I do see a real shift in DCA, physically of course and more important philisophically (did i spell that right?) that WILL change the overall perception and in effect, attendance out there. Now, I'm NOT saying the new DCA will be some grand hit, packing the park everyday or anything, but I am saying is the park will see a gradual (and healthy) rise in attendance and people will stay there longer than the 3-4 hours people still generally stay even now and overall will be happier and impressed with everything thats there. And while I'm excited for the overall changes of DCA, of course I'm not thrilled with ALL the changes *coughmorePixarcough*, I do acknowledge the quality is 100% there even if we dont necessarily like the direction in which its going in. Anyway, the resons why DCA will be more popular is simply for the fact it will FINALLY have all the elements it SHOULD of had on day one . DCA missed the mark in so many ways of what a Disney park should have, it was sad thinking about it. But those elements ARE now being observed again and some for years now to be fair. But they are finally doing it to make DCA a fully idealized *Disney* park again which will have a lot of people take notice. They are: 1. ORIGINAL attractions! When DCA debuted back in 2001, there were TWO original rides, Soarin and SSL, thats pretty sad lol. Rest of the stuff clones and rides you can easily find at KBF down the street. Animation studio, to be fair, is quite original and very good, but its always been seen more of an exhibit than an actual attraction--but I personally see it as an attraction. Since then, there have been quite a few original DCA attractions: TSM, Monsters Inc mainly. But its nice to know ALL the new additions will be 100% original attractions as well, all coming to DCA, at least first. Like them or hate them, the great thing about this they are all designed specifically with this park in mind. Certainly not the case of DCA in 2001. 2. Fantasy elements: In 2001, DCA had NONE of this oddly. Not a single attraction that made you think beyound the 'here and now', which was the whole conceptional problem of the park. DCA was meant to be the anti-Disneyland in many ways and if done right, fine. But many saw it as Anti-Disney period, partly due its lack of fanatasy elements in the park. Again, but 2012, it will be very different. Of course, its been that way since FFF debuted in 2002 and obviously you can argue they went waaaay overboard since lol. But the move from contemporary to now where everything is based in basically movies and cartoons have gotten wildly out of balance. I DO think these elements are much needed and scratch my head wondering why they didnt have SOME of it at opening, only shows how out of touch they were with their audience when they built this park. Now, they are making up for it and yes, it is welcomed. I like the fact they basically created a carney boardwalk game into an actual ride attraction like TSM. THATS taking a concept of an area and thinking it beyound its scope, which Disney has proven to do again and again. Sometimes good, sometimes bad, but thinking outside of the box is what creates fantasy in the first place. The ONE thing I would tell the people who is redoing DCA is fantasy doesnt=cartoons though! They have a nice park across the way that proves that. Fantasy is simply going beyound the ordinary, taking us to places that we havent gone to or impossible TO go to or reimagining a place that is different from what it really is. DL is really one big fantasy park. Yes, FL and Toontown implies whimsical with classic Disney character stories, but MS, TL, AL and Frontierland are all both steeped in both reality and fantasy at the same time. There is NO MS that looked as ideal and quaint as the one that is walked on at DL every day. AL is for a time and era where you can imagine being an explorer and there wasnt a Disney Adventures tour bus to get you there . Frontierland gave you an idealized version of being at the very cusp of American exploration and ingenuity before the industral age took place. NOS puts in a very real place thats (thankfully now) still around, but under the surface of it you are still seeing the adventures of Pirates of the past or hanging out with ghost in a haunted house. TL is a no brainer. Fantasy puts you IN those places you could not normally be in. Epcot, TDS, AK, all does great jobs of this as well, steeped in fantasy and reality, across several continets past, present and future! Of course, making a park about California today will have limited fantasy elements, but again why HPB couldnt give us the same glamorized look at Hollywood like MGM studios does and make US feel like celebrities I will never get? Why we cant have a mini-Frontierland of San Francisco in the 1800's I will never get? The entire concept of just 'visiting' Califonia...while you were IN California already was the lamest idea in the history of ideas IMO . You want to make it about California, fine, put a damn twist on the subject matter that only Disney knows how to do. I like the fact BVS does bring us to a different time and era of Los Angesles. THATS the kind fantasy that DCA needs more of, not simply going under the sea with Ariel or hanging out with talking cartoon cars in the desert. That stuff is fine, but we need more of BVS in terms of fantasy oriented look of California, less Pixar themed lands. Anyway, DCA at least HAS some of these elements now and if HPB gets changes in phase 2 with a 1930's motiff, the better IMO. The 'here and now' is pretty boring when you can drive down the street and see that. Thankfully it took less than a decade for them to get this . Immersion and story: Yeah, another, 'huh' when the designers made DCA of 2001, one that will be a lot more corrected by the time 2012 rolls around. GRR was the only land that made me feel like I was somewhere else basically. It was the only one that made me CARE frankly and living in Santa Cruz for years, I can appreciate it and feel ho-hum about it at the same time. HPB was a distant second, only because it did a halfway decent job of making you feel like you were in a backlot although besides the animation studio that actually GOES behind the scenes of how things are done in movies, nothing else in the area did oddly...but I'll keep going . Anyway, WITH Carsland, BVS and finally giving the pier a specific era (somewhat), that is changing. DCA had no story. Nothing! No land told you anything about itself. None of it was presented in its attractions NOR did it give you a sense of time. We got pleeeenty of place lol, but nothing beyound that. When I walked onto PP, I was walking on a pier. When I walked in GRR, I was walking in a forest somewhere, but nothing else. NOW, you will start to feel certain eras and story emerging. When you walk into Carsland, you get it right away (especially if you seen the movie ). I'm guessing when you see the red trolly go through Hollywood, you at least know you are stepping in a different time and hopeflly in REAL time in the future, the area will be changed to fit it more and then finally explain what is a haunted hotel in the 1930s is doing on a backlot--because it no longer will be . It will never explain Monsters Inc, but as DL show and all the Disney parks one way or the other, not every attraction is explained in the area. I dont care about that, but when you have a 'theme' that seems to go against every attraction in the place as Muppets, Monsters Inc, TOT, stage shows like Aladdin, etc show, something is wrong . And yes, UNLIKE DCA of 2001, we will have rides with actual queues to tell you that story further. DCA had 3 major attractions in 2001 and not a single one bothered with emphasizing they were anything more than rides. Thats fine at MM, but at Disney we expect a tad more. TOT started this 'new' trend in DCA and thankfully every attraction since has followed this and yes all the newer attractions will follow. Night time shows: Again, DCA of 2001 makes you go 'huh??' when, and I was there the week it opened, there wasnt a single night time show of any kind. Makers of DCA: What the hell were you thinking??? Its bad enough the day time shows (glorius Steps in TIme and Eureka parade, both lasted less time than the 2fer experiation dates) werent exactly thrilling, and the rides didnt exactly keep you entralled past 3 pm if you ACTUALLY showed up at 8 am when the park actually opened at the time. How they expected to keep people in the park buying cute DCA T-shirts and eating at the Mondavi until midnight without much to do (and see) is beyound me. DL has NO problems doing that even for us veterns. I was in the park at 9:30 am with Irishfan last month (and he was there during Magic Mornings) and we left at midnight feeling entertained beginning to end with all the night time stuff. In fact during Christmas, there was SO much, we actually split a lot of it up over 2 days to see it all. As for DCA, I still remember being in the park around 9 p.m. and hearing the fireworks go off at DL and it hit me then that THIS park had no fireworks of any kind...nor a Fantasmic, a parade of some sort and/or someone putting a dummy prop of Michael Eisner up on a stage so we can egg him every night for approving this awful park! At least that wouldve been worth the price of admission. Of course, there were no multi-passes back then, so I can only 'hear' the fireworks with envy as I had paid my full day DCA ticket, the first and LAST time I ever paid for one btw and was stuck. And by the 8th hour there having gone on everything multiple times and realized there was no other listings of entertainment for the rest of the night as DL had their fireworks show, Fantasmic and even a parade, I was stuck in the MM line for the 2nd time . Of course, DCA bombed instantly and someone got the bright idea (get it?) of throwing MSEP perade in there, which was fine and I remember seeing MSEP a few years later at DCA, it REALLY felt like Disney there, something lacking a lot in DCA then. Just the music alone made you feel like you were back in a Disney park! Of course, the less talked about Luminara, the better lol, but why couldnt Disney get the idea BEFORE to have something in the lagoon at night, like Epcot, like TDS in theirs, thought ahead of time, I will never get? But now, with WOC, the next Fantasmic if you listen to all the hype, sounds like it will be THE show that will turn DCA into a true Disney park based on the spectacle and crowds this thing is expected to achieve. Not only will it finally be another DCA original, maybe it will keep most people in the park past sunset for a change. And maybe it will do something that makes Disneyland so great to be in and another element missing from DCA which is... Disney at night: Okay this isnt really a really a Disney 'element' per se, but anyone knows and with all the discussion about APers flocking there then, Disney after sunset is one of the best times to be there. There is something magical about it, with the lights on Main Street, the Castle changing colors, FL, NOS lit up, Fireworks, etc. The park feels like a different place. On the weekends, there are bands in TL and swing dancing near the castle (which I didnt know about until recently lol). Its just a different vibe. But DCA after sunset....it just means its almost time to go to DL soon lol. Yes, with the MSEP, it keeps people AROUND, but it doesnt really keep people interested in the park itself. Anyone who isnt watching the parade can walk around HPB, GRR and even PP to see what I mean. These places are pretty dead. NOTHING is going on in a lot of them. People arent hanging around. They will jump on the rides there, which is why they are there, but there in no real nighttime vibe. I'm hoping with WOC and all the extended stuff there will be to do, people will stick around just for the hell of it because there WILL be more to do and see. I'm also hoping BVS really will be the Main St of DCA and be fully lit up and have a vibe to keep people there all night, because the 'entrance' we have now does jack all for that. Of course, MS has the fireworks to keep people there and parades and snow at Christmastime etc, not to mention thats where you shop when the park closes. Also it has Disney Gallery, Lincoln and really cool exhibits to draw people in all day. Maybe BVS will have their OWN snow during Christmas, maybe people will be drawn in because they will create small day and night time performances there in the future, who knows, but night time at DCA has to be more than just waiting around for the parade/show and then running off to Disneyland when its finished. I'm thinking when done right, a lot more people will stay in DCA in 2012 past 9 pm. Which will lead into another, but smaller element that makes DL so sucessful but once again lacks in DCA.... People Watching: Irishfan commented this to me when I was with him last month and although I knew it didnt exist in DCA very much, it didnt hit me PERSONALLY why I didnt spend much time in DCA. But then I realized, as I get closer to senior citizen age lol, I spend more time just watching people and chilling at the parks, especially when you rode everything in every Disney park around the world about a hundred times already. Most people here are Apers or simply grew up around Disney all their lives, so many here do a lot of that. And I think although DCA is a place a lot of Apers actually go to, besides of ALL the reasons thats been cited for years why no one stays, people watching is rarely mentioned. NOS is my favorite place at DL for this reason alone. I been spending a little more time in Main Street because of the LP meets lately with people and oddly I rarely people watched there....but I really like doing it now . But at DCA, there IS no NOS, no Coke Corner, no hub area, no area anywhere where you can just sit on a bench for hours and want to watch people come and go. Again the Sunshine Plaza entrance would seem to have the most potential for this, but you dont see many people congregating there unless there is a parade. And the area is so bland, it doesnt just draw you in to hang around. PP would seem to be the other area that does this, but I dont really want to stick around there all day. The Cove bar is the CLOSEST I've ever been to just wanting to 'hang out' in, but its a little limited and really after a few beers, I can 'hang out' anywhere lol. So again, I'm hoping BVS (man, I got a lot riding on this area lol) will have more of that element that DCA is still missing today. And for the record, I'm not saying NO ONE feels there are no areas in DCA to just sort of hang around in and watch the day go by, I'm sure a lot of people do. My point is compared to the level of Disneyland and when you see people who sit around in these areas compared to DCA, there is a lot less of that. I'm hoping in a few years time, BVS will draw people in to do that more often. Maybe an improved PP will do the same, but DCA needs immersive and sit friendly places people could enjoy and not want to go back and do that just at DL. All I know is I have sat around in a half dozen LP meets over the 4 years where people sit and talk...not a single one has ever been at DCA . Okay, once with Darkbeer at Cove Bar, but that doesnt count lol. Well, thats my rant lol. If you couldnt read it all, I cant blame you. But if you did, maybe you will agree, even if you personally hate the creative direction a lot of new DCA is going, can agree the elements they are fully setting forth will draw in a bigger audience. Even though I doubt very many people buy one day passes these days with all the AP and Multiday discounts now, people will start to at least PERCIEVE DCA as worthy of a one day admission and visit it at such. The DCA I see and been visiting off and on since 2001 still physically looks a lot like the DCA of 2001. But the indiviual attractions and shows have gone in a completely direction since then. THe California theme, as far as I'm concerned, is dead! Its been dead for a long time now. However, what is coming out of is a more exciting, fun and innovative theme park that makes it feel like Disney again and not just the sad mix of KBF, MM and Universal Studios under the banner, 'Disney' like 2001. I have faith DCA in 2012 will be a park even I would pay a full price ticket again and want to spend the day in....or most of it . Others feel the same way?
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Forgive me WorldD, but I didn't bother reading all of that. I agree that it will be more popular if only because the lion share of new stuff will be there instead of DL. There will be a lot of curiosity and interest from locals once the dust settles and tourists will likely add more time to their visits in order to see all of the new additions like WoC.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney LOL thats okay Hans, I couldve edited some of it. I had no idea how big it was until I pressed post. My main point is its NOT just new stuff that will bring people in, but SO much of the elements that was lacking in a lot of the stuff in the first place that was never at DCA...but always at DL. In other words, not just quanity, but QUALITY! DCA easily couldve made the park twice the size and more to do, but if it didnt create elements of fantasy, same lifeless areas of the orgininal theme park, utter night time messes like Luminara, etc, DCA wouldnt be any more popular than it is now...just more to do, but the lack of real interest of the park itself would be the same. Now there are elements that will convince them it is another Disney theme park and HOPEFULLY stay in the park longer.
Originally Posted By tashajilek I actually read the whole thing lol. I am excited and scared at the same time to see DCA in 2012. Excited for the new attactions of course but not looking forward to the bigger crowds. Im not sure if the new attractions will take heat off of DL or both parks will be packed? The thing i like about when DL is Crowded i can say hey lets go to DCA lol. As for the night time feel i dont really get it at DCA either. The only time i really found it fun and inviting was at mickeys trick r treat party. Why they close DCA hours earlier then DL makes no sense if they want the parks to be equal. I hope 2012 brings some good attractions to DCA but i cant take crowds any worse then they are now.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "My main point is its NOT just new stuff that will bring people in, but SO much of the elements that was lacking in a lot of the stuff in the first place that was never at DCA...but always at DL." I agree, and I also believe that those elements will be the hook that keeps people coming back, encouraging them to spend more time in the park, ultimately improving the park's reputation on the street. The first step though is to get a buzz going and pique the interest of the general public - something that Disney failed to do in 2001. I still believe that the park wasn't all that bad to begin with, and I'm not convinced that the disjointedness and other problems with the place are being appropriately addressed with these changes. In fact, in some areas they are being worsened. Overall I'm just not that impressed or excited about what's in store. Nevertheless, I do think there's going to enough of a Disney "wow" factor in the new offerings to lure in more people and keep them coming.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros I pretty much agree with everything that's been said. I think what bothered me the most about the park when it first opened (and it took me a long time to figure out exactly what it was) was that it all took place in modern times. What makes DL so special is all the areas have a distinct era. Not only are you traveling to the west, but you're going to the west in the mid-1800's. You go to New Orleans in the 1870's. You go to the jungle in the 1930's. You go to a European village in the 1600's. Yes, there are some elements in each that don't quite fit the era, but it takes you to a setting that is very different than everyday life. No matter how exotic the place, it's just not going to have the same affect if it's set in modern times. That's why I'm glad that they are changing the era that some of the areas are set. Buena Vista Street and Hollywoodland (is that what we're calling it now?) will both be in LA in the 30's, so they will kind of work off each other, which is fine. The Pier will be set around the turn of the century. I don't think they're doing it in the Phase I stuff, but I think the Grizzly area would work really well with a 30's/40's setting. Unfortunately, one of the big drawbacks to the California theme is that there just aren't that many eras to choose from. They seem to be ignoring anything before 1900, so that leaves out the old-west stuff they could do, and the Missions (other than the tortilla factory), which could both be worked into something really neat. Unfortunatley, they won't have much land left after Carsland opens, so it will be difficult to add much, but I suppose they could rework part of the park (farm, winery, wharf) to an earlier era. Overall, I agree with what you've said. I like the work that's being done, but I just wish it wasn't all toon-related stuff.
Originally Posted By Hista98 I think soon the farm area will be torn out. to me it doesn't really work and is not that interesting. They could eaisly retheme it to something else. also the other half of the timon lot could be built into a expansion of hollywoodland. I think the reason they avoid the west is so it doesn't look like a mirror image of disneyland next door. they want it to be diffrent
Originally Posted By Ohana <<<I think soon the farm area will be torn out. to me it doesn't really work and is not that interesting. They could eaisly retheme it to something else. >>> From the plans it appears the farm will be the front part of Carsland. I think Carsland is going to srtetch all the way to the winery.
Originally Posted By LOVE-DCA DANG!!!!!! that is a long post.. let us know next time you write a novel!! im sorry i just could not read the whole thing.. tooo long ♥
Originally Posted By LOVE-DCA <<<I think soon the farm area will be torn out. to me it doesn't really work and is not that interesting. They could easily re-theme it to something else. >>> >>>From the plans it appears the farm will be the front part of Carsland. I think Carsland is going to stretch all the way to the winery<<<< First off I like the “farm” area, it’s there for a reason to show California’s farm culture. As is most of the rides are themed according to things in California. Also the farm area is nice, DCA doesn’t have a farm like area and I think they should keep it. Now for the plans on carsland…. Carsland is not going to stretch to the winery. In fact that huge wooden gate thing that is over by the tortilla fac. –that is going to be the starting area—the entrance to carsland and it will stretch all the way into that back parking lot that they bulldozed to build carsland. So everything In back of tortilla fac and tower of terror will be carsland.The plans don't do justice, as they drew carsland to look much bigger then it may be.. Here is a link I found, check it out if you want!! <a href="http://disneyland.disney.go.com/disneyland/en_US/disneyscaliforniaadventure/index?name=DCAPreview#p=BigPlansCarsLand" target="_blank">http://disneyland.disney.go.co...CarsLand</a>
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt ^^Looking at the image in the link it does appear that the entrance to Carsland will be directly across from the Winery and remove some of the infastructure that are now part of The Farm. The Farm area is pretty large, so I'm guessing that the end near Flik's entrance and the Bug's 3D theater will be left alone.
Originally Posted By LOVE-DCA Hans.. you are the man or woman!!!! You have the best info all the time!! you rock and i was right and ur right..
Originally Posted By LOVE-DCA I was saying thanks ..cause in the thread about the construction in DCA, u told said that they did move award wieners to a cart….and I was thanking you for that. cause you always have the info,….the 411!! ♥ thanks. Are you a man or a woman?
Originally Posted By Ohana that will be interesting theming again on the front side as cars land theming will collide with the winery and the farm/ bugs entrsnce
Originally Posted By LOVE-DCA >>that will be interesting theming again on the front side as cars land theming will collide with the winery and the farm/ bugs entrsnce<< Umm yeah ..no I don’t think the theming will collide with each other! Not everything has to match, besides that’s the whole idea of it to get the feel that your in a different land or area and that it’s different then the one next to it.. and the winery is apparently getting a makeover—so who knows what that will be after it’s done. I can’t believe that they are making over the winery—it’s soo pretty as it is!!
Originally Posted By teddibubbles WorldDisney You said everything so right on! somethings you had noted hit me there too. one thing I hated was the music track playing over and over . I would not want to sit ANYWHERE there and hear its 4 songs over and over! ( about 4 songs is all I ever noted. I know its just my own taste maybe. but I hate the theaming around SOC not at that ride its self. but the whole place around there. it makes me feel like you are sitting at a dirty auto repair fuel station. YUCK! I live in the desert. but the site of the unkempt palm trees. the only trees iv seen that look like that. where a small clump that had been deserted long ago. every palm out here has had some kind of care a few times at least! and just the whole theam. makes me cringe. I truly HATE that part of the park.. as far as the park its self. the only place I LIKE to sit. is that smoking area next to GRR. The reason why. there is a sound track off in the bushes that you can hear birds and nature sound as you sit in a small bit of tree landscape.. with the bear signs and real woodland sounds it reminds me of northern ca woodlands.. not that sitting through the clickity clack of grr don't drive you nuts lol. it does. but I do like the grr area a lot! after years and years of Disneyland. and ride burn out does hit some.. the FEELING of the park. Does count to me.. hubby and I dint go on much rides. but we do sit down and enjoy the feel you get in each land. the thing no one gets at DCA. and people can say all they want to on how great it is.. ya. but any one of you can name COUNTLESS places that are sweet and lovely. and have GREAT GREAT theaming in Disneyland. you could sit in spots all day EVERYWHERE. and relax to a GREAT feeling of site / sound / and Vistas. now think of DCA. ya right.. VERY VERY little of any places you can get a theam or blend into that theaming. and lose yourself to it. that you cant get at a carnival! Great thoughts WorldDisney
Originally Posted By FerretAfros Wait, which music loop is it that you don't like? The one that they play in Condor Flats? That's one of my favorite loops from any Disney park, and definatley my favorite from DLR. There are a bunch of different songs on it, but several of them do sound the same since they're by the same composer or different tracks off a single film score. That whole loop just gives the area a very Epcot-esque feeling, which is great, IMO.
Originally Posted By LOVE-DCA >>the park its self. the only place I LIKE to sit. is that smoking area next to GRR. The reason why. there is a sound track off in the bushes that you can hear birds and nature sound as you sit in a small bit of tree landscape.. with the bear signs and real woodland sounds it reminds me of northern ca woodlands.. not that sitting through the clickity clack of grr don't drive you nuts lol. it does. but I do like the grr area a lot!>> OJ I AGREE!! The bird chirping soundtrack is nice.. not that I enjoy the smoke ..but yeah just sitting there ,. It’s mellow , and nice! Two thumbs up for that!! And I love the soundtrack in CF also.. it’s get you into the “flying” mood. And I love the different variations of music they play in sunshine plaza and surrounding that have to do with California.. it’s cool. the one I like the most is sung my Bing Crosby!! i call it the san fernando valley song. I also don’t mind the music as you walk through the winery.. that is nice and peaceful also
