Originally Posted By Minnie1955 Okay so my car died the other day and now I'm forced to buy a new one. I currently have a 6mo daughter and plan on having more kids, meaning I'll need a roomy car. I'm willing to spend between 20-25K but the thing is, I know nothing about cars. What kind of family car do you guys own?? I need ideas. btw, we were looking at Chrysler 300's the other day... seems like a possibility.
Originally Posted By avromark ^^^ You can save $ by buying a 1 or 2 year old 300, the 300 is a last generation Mercedes Benz E-Class underneath, if you do get the 300, don't go for the HEMI (gas) or the 2.7L get the 3.5L V6, RoadTrip here on LP owns a Charger, the Dodge version of the car, or you can consider a Magnum. These vehicles are RWD so you'll have a small hump on the floor of the rear seat. The advantage is a RWD car is sportier (pretty much all sports cars are RWD, and more durable generally. The Impala offers great value. For a large roomy vehicle. These cars have pushrod engines, these engines are a bit courser, but the advantage is that a pushrod is lower maintenance, these engines rev lower and require less maintenance on average then OHC's found in the competitors. This car is also available with a front bench, letting you put 6 people in them. This car is built in one of the best plants in North America. These cars offer long warranties. The uplevel sound system in this car will shake you. Onstar is a nice perk. Between Kia and Hyundai, for 4 cylinders go with the styling you prefer, if you go for The Sonata actually beat The Camry and Accord in tests by Car and Driver and Motortrend (especially when you factor in the value), worried about reliability? If these cars weren't reliable Hyundai and Kia would not offer the industries best warranty, 10 years. Think about that. Oh and a Sonata has a powerful V6 if you want, the Kia's V6 is less powerful. If you go Japanese you cannot beat an Accord, the Accord handles well and is not mushy, Accords last. If you want sporty go for a Mazda6. These cars are much more European in flavour, they are slightly smaller and more mobile. The Accord V6 and Mazda6 attack mountains with gusto. The Mazda6 would be the poor mans BMW. The Room champion is The Ford Five Hundred, nothing will beat this for room. The downside is it's not the fastest or most stylish car on the road. But it is very safe. Saturn has a surprise for you. The Aura is once nice car, it's a bit small for me, but the solid feeling of this car and nice design are amazing. It has a very good engine. This car is based on an Opel, it's designed to handle the Autobahn. There are some nice leather interior colours and nice BMW/Audieque orange lights, this car comes loaded, or over the top loaded. Standard equipment in this car is very rich, you'll be amazed at all the little touches. Do not buy a car without ABS, and learn how to use it (Mash your pedal). Many here will recommend the Camry, bear in mind you are paying a premium. And these cars are not without fault, look up Camry V6 sludge problem (Toyota calls it Gelling), Toyota tends to be harder to deal with to fix problems under warranty, they point out their vaunted reliability and will probably accuse you of doing something wrong. Another note is that the payload (the weight you can carry) in these cars are less then the competition. There is no such thing as a bad car today, the worst car of today will beat the best car of the 80's even when they were new. You no longer have to lube the chassis, etc. Get side airbags, and ABS, automatic climate control, once you have that you won't go back. Don't leave out Mitsubishi Galant , this car has beautiful blue gauges and silver metallic accents. The Nissan Altima is sporty, the Sentra has grown in size. Do yourself a favour, test drive at least 5 cars before you commit. Look at everything, see if it will hold a stroller in the trunk, bring a water bottle, try the cup holder, will it be easy to reach? Will my iPod fit, does it have an iPod jack? Where will I put my tissues? Can I reach the car seat in the back? Can someone sit beside the car seat? Is the radio easy to tune? Can I see when I back up? When you test drive, remember try the highway, try the city seats, back the car up, park it, do a u-turn. Will this car do what I want it to do? It may seem nice on the straightways, but maybe the engine isn't powerful enough to safely merge. Maybe this car can't make the U-Turn at school, maybe you can't see out the back window and will end up hitting the parking garage wall everytime at work. Does this car have an armrest that I can use?
Originally Posted By peeaanuut those are very nice cars, but remember that kids drop drinks, get things on their shoes and cause other damage unintentionally. Also, do you go on alot of road trips, day trips, vacations? Cargo space might be something you want to concider. Also will the kids play sports? would you need to shuttle friends around for play dates or what not? a little bit more info might help out.
Originally Posted By avromark Have you considered a Tall Wagon type vehicle as well? Jeep Compass (good engine and CVT) available AWD for safety. Mazda 5, this car does some amazing tricks, my dad has one. There is a little storage compartment under the middle seats, it has large lights, the sliding doors will make loading and unloading your child in tight parking spaces easy. This would probably suit you the best. It has available Xenon (you know those really bright headlights on BMW's, Acura's etc), it has this really beautiful brown leather available. Dodge Caliber, AWD, these cool speakers that swing down and a cooled compartment that will keep your childs milk cool! It also has odour resistant, stain resistant cloth, this will be god send with your child. Chrysler Sebring -> Good engine (get the 4 cyl or the the 3.5, don't get the 2.7), cooled and heated beverage holder. It keeps your coffee hot and your water cool. And these cool indigo gauges. But I'd definitely look at 300, Mazda5, Accord, Impala, Sonata.
Originally Posted By Minnie1955 Holy crap... thank you for such a thorough response avro. The 300 that we test drove was a 2006 and it was the last one on the lot, so of course the saleslady was pushing it in my face that the car might be gone by the time I was ready to buy it. THe more she pushed, the more I got annoyed and had to leave. But it is $6000 off the price... But okay, now at least I've got names of other cars to consider... and a better idea on how to take a worthwhile test drive. Thanks *very* much again peeaanuut... we have kept in mind all of the future road trips we'd be taking, although we haven't gone on any since we've had our daughter. But yeah, the 300 has a lot of room in the trunk. Also, since she's only 6mo, I hadn't even considered the idea of shuttling her friends to and fro... but good point. I guess I should mention, I'm not a fan of minivans. My current car is a 325i which is tiny and barely fits a car seat in the back. I've had this thing for years though so I'm used to driving a small car with very easy manuverability.... I think a minivan would just be too big of a car for me to handle. Oh and by the way... I have no idea what ABS is.
Originally Posted By avromark Anti lock brakes, you've got them. If you like the 325i, then you'll like the Mazda6. A Mazda5 is not a minivan its an MPV in Europe. It's actually based on a car the size of your 325i (Mazda3) but with the room of a mid size wagon (Think E-Class wagon). The exterior dimensions don't always equate to interior dimensions. Some cars are big outside, small inside or vice versa. A Caliber may be something you like, it's basically a tall wagon based on a compact car. It has many baby friendly features (like the cooler). One LPers wife owns one, Another LPer narrowed down his choice to a Caliber and a car not available in USA, this LPer has 2 young children.
Originally Posted By Minnie1955 awesome... I'll try to test drive a Mazda5 and Caliber this week. Thanks so much again!
Originally Posted By friendofdd Don't dismiss a mini-van without test-driving one. Unless you can't stand the styling. They are extremely versatile and not really very large.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros Mini vans are great. Although a little stereotypical soccer mom, there is a reason for that. Without feeling too much like a school bus, you can manage to fit 7 (some have even more seats) people and let each of them have a decent ammount of space, along with plenty of cargo room. Although they do have their drawbacks (a little large for just running errands around town, can be somewhat ineficient with gas), overall, they are great. SUV's are a sportier version of the same idea, but since they are usually fairly tall, could pose problems for young ones trying to get in and out. As far as durablilty, I have a general rule to avoid American cars. I've just had bad experiences, but I also know plenty of people who swear by them. My cousin had a Kia and had a terrible time with that as well. Honda and Toyota are both well known for their reliability, and I would definately have to agree. I drive a 1990 (but we bought it in mid '89) Toyota Camry, and it still works great. It doesn't have a ton of pick-up, but it certainly has enough to get by. The only major problem that we've had with it are the power steering pump dieing (and then the new one being too powerful for the old hoses, long story) and one of the hinges on the trunk breaking. Both were fairly easy to fix, and they happened within the last 1-2 years. It has aged remarkably well with time.
Originally Posted By avromark ^^^ Ferret you would have loved my 2001 Camry, nothing but problems, the engine sludged, she went through transmissions, she cracked her block, she couldn't tow a couple of ski-doo's without spazzing... My mom had problems with an 04 Sienna as well. Your Camry was made in Japan, now they're not. Toyota used to be good, now they coast on reputation. Truth is always behind reality. That said there are lemons in every class. Caravans were known for having transmission problems, however low and behold once Ody's and Siennas started selling in fast quantities they started to have transmission problems. Vans are great, my second car is a used van. I use it for Home Depot / Groceries / Antiques. One thing you have to remember is the average minivan is based on a car, a van is heavier then a car, a van can hold more. It's much easier to overload a cavernous space then a small space. If you loaded a purse, an overnight bag and a large suitcase with nothing but cans, guess which one will be heavier. Now assume each one is made out of the same cloth/leather/plastic which one do you think will be over capacity more often? Many people overload vans. The other thing thats important with any heavy vehicle is to come to a complete stop before shifting into forward after backing up, it won't hurt that Civic as much as it does an Ody. My daily driver is a mid size SUV, I love it, but it does hold less then the van. Oh and the van was a gimme from my parents, the SUV I had to pay for. Heh. a 300 is rear wheel drive like your BMW so if you like how your BMW drives, you probably liked the 300. Hondas were always over engineered, their brakes double sealed. Where did they get their VTEC (which beat Toyotas VTTI) in racing. Guess what Honda/Chevrolet are kicking ass in their respective series, Toyota is the laughing stock of F1. Toyota was banned for a long time from rallying for cheating. If you want the versatility of a minivan but with the image of a SUV, try a crossover. They're generally the size of a small minivan. Consider: Mazda CX-7, Subaru Tribeca, Buick Rendevous, Chrysler Pacifica. I live in a commuter village, with a lot of people who work at the Lexus RX/Matrix/Corolla plant. I can tell you not all drive Toyotas. Some do. Some also drive: Mazda3, Honda Civic, Chevrolet Astro, Nissan Maxima's, VW Jetta. There is no such thing as a vehicle that's significantly better, if you look at trouble per vehicle, the difference between the best and worst comes down to 1 or 2 items per vehicle. As a BMW owner you probably know BMW does most things right, but they do have quirks, Ie. Your Reset Tool for engine lights. They also sometimes have problems. Replacing parts is a natural part of owning any car, no car will ever run without any service. If you bought the Saturn Aura for example it senses when it needs an oil change. (Your BMW depending on year will do the same). Why? Different people drive differently, of different climates. Some people drive on dusty roads, others spend half their life stuck on the Santa Monica Freeway. Saying you change your oil every 3000 or 5000 miles just doesn't fit everyone. Again what's good for me is not necessarily whats good for you. What's good for your husband may not be what's good for you. Take advice, but make up your own mind after you evaluate the vehicle. Don't just go And if the sales person and you don't jive, go to another dealer. Tell them up front you are looking at other vehicles and you will get to them if you want to buy. Some will walk away, some will claim your crazy. It's your money, if the sales person doesn't suit you. Well it's their loss. If they tell you you have to drive a certain route, well how can you decide if the car is good for you? I know people who pay well above MSRP for a "hot" vehicle when it first comes out. Chances are that money can be spent better on something else. Don't fall in love with one make or model. You'll ultimately lose out on what's best for you. That said if the 3-Series treated you right and still met your needs, then by all means by another 3-Series. But don't buy it cuz Mr. Jones says so, or because it's cool. You found out your car no longer meets your needs. Find a car that does. As much as you love that swanky VW Beetle convertible, if you can never get that stroller in the trunk, well you're going to have to live with that until your daughter no longer needs a stroller. Do you really want to live for years with a car where the stroller is placed on the seat beside you? I like Tommy Hilfiger, I like Ralph Lauren, but if it's the Ralph thats long enough for my body, then it's the Ralph I'll take. If you always have a water bottle with you and the car you chose has shallow cupholders on the floor, well your going to have to live with reaching all the way down to take a gulp. You'll have to live with the water bottle jamming under your pedals every time you stop. Don't be afraid to put the carseat in the car. If the salesperson doesn't like it, well I'm sure theres one that won't. It's also sad to say many sales people try to push around a lady. So if your single, take along a man friend. If the sales person talks to only the man, well you know then this is not the sales person that will do anything for me. Chances are that sales person won't even give you a run down of the features on delivery (Guess what, you pay for that, Freight and Delivery doesn't just mean put it on the train). Wait for a sales person that's patient. A co-worker just bought a Jeep, the first sales person rattled her. So we called another dealer ahead of time and arranged for a sales person another person at work had success with. This is a major decision, don't make it lightly, don't feel threatened or rushed by a sales person. You like that Accord? Guess what there are over 200,000 others like it! So what if the other one is red not black?
Originally Posted By officerminnie When I was ready to buy my first new car, as well as a used car for DS, I check the reliablility ratings from Consumer Reports and the crash test ratings on the NHTSA website. I found that Subaru, Mazda, Toyota, Honda, and Nissan all had great reliablilty ratings for the models I was looking at. I then test drove a few of them, and ended up with the Nissan Altima. That was in 2003 and I have never regretted buying this car. Be sure to ake your car seat with you when you go car shopping (if your 6 month old is still in an infant seat, you might want to borrow a convertible seat to place rear facing, as they take up much more space) and see how it fits in the back seat. Also, although they are safe for adults, do not get a vehicle with side imnpact airbags in the back seats where you will have infants and children. Good luck and happy shopping!
Originally Posted By avromark ^^^ I would however take Consumers Report with a grain of salt, they ended up tipping an SUV, with the government and insurance institute not being able to replicate the stunt without going to extreme measures (Who really cranks the wheel all the way over at faster then highway speeds).
Originally Posted By amazedncal2 Minnie, I know you said you don't want a mini van. My DD feels the same way (they have an almost 3 year old. They decided on a Honda Pilot (mid size SUV). Before that she drove a mustang and then a Saab. We are also on our 2nd Pilot we like it that much Her sister in law swears by her Odyssey (sp). Anyway, I'd like to echo test driving several cars. I know it takes time and each sales person will have you practically buying the car then and there but we found a great deal of difference in what we thought we wanted and what we ended up with just because of the test drive. You also might look into online buying from a dealer. Test drive the cars, decide what you want and then go online to Honda, Chevy, whatever you want. Pick out the details and they will find the perfect car for you. You then go and test drive the car again and are not obligated to buy. This worked well for us because we are easily swayed by the sales person to buy something that we didn't intend to buy, i.e. upgrades that we didn't want just because we could get the car that day. Good luck
Originally Posted By oc_dean I would look at the Honda Odyssey. <a href="http://automobiles.honda.com/models/model_overview.asp?ModelName=Odyssey" target="_blank">http://automobiles.honda.com/m odels/model_overview.asp?ModelName=Odyssey</a> No offense to anyone ... but why deal with the unreliability of anything other than Honda or Toyota? Consumer Reports has repeatedly shown all other car manufacterers to be bad or mediocre at best in terms of reliability and dependibility. Why get something .. and deal with a break down 3 years later? Picture yourself on a freeway .... clunk! And you got your restless kids on a freeway shoulder! I've always loved the look of our American cars ... but when Toyota and Honda are the winners in reliability for the last 3-4 decades .. it will ALWAYS be Honda/Toyota for me.
Originally Posted By officerminnie >>>>I would however take Consumers Report with a grain of salt, they ended up tipping an SUV, with the government and insurance institute not being able to replicate the stunt without going to extreme measures (Who really cranks the wheel all the way over at faster then highway speeds).<<<< True. I was referring to repair reliability though. I would hope those ratings are somewhat reliable. But yeah, CR just did a huge "expose'" slamming most infant car seats, then had to eat crow and admit they tested them at some crazy speed like 70 MPH, way higher speed than what NHTSA tests them at.
Originally Posted By oc_dean Consumer Reports COMPARED to any other publication out there is better than others. I have CONSISTANTLY purchased the yearly issue of cars which is the April issue. And the chart with all the red, white, black dots have seemed to be on the money on many cars for the last couple decades.
Originally Posted By oc_dean With American cars getting consistant black dots .. everywhere! Electrical, transmission, engine, etc.!
Originally Posted By avromark ^^^ So of course my Camry was a good car, heck it maybe might have made it to 100k, but heaven forbid that I had a 93 Taurus that did well over 300k. No car company makes only good, no car company makes only bad. If those cars truly were that much better, they would be the only cars in existence. No one car or car company meets the needs of everyone. Not every thing Disney makes is magical, why would it be different for Toyota? So the day the police arrive with a Ford Crown Victoria, tell them to come back when they buy the reliable Toyota. Heck the Toyota must be cheaper to operate too. There's a reason why Police use the cars they do, probably has to do with durability/reliability/cost. You drive your car over medians and run it 18 to 24 hours a day and see how it holds up. If you don't buy a Toyota or Honda you will have problems. If you buy a Toyota you will never be stranded. Just wait until that Dodge Sprinter ambulance comes, oh boy I won't arrive at the hospital, it will break down, the transmission will go, engine, electrical. I'll be lucky if it even makes it there. I generally say with reviews in anything. Throw way the top 10% and the bottom 10%, the remaining 80% of opinion will be most accurate. Poor Minnie with only a BMW and not a Toyota, guess her car would never have died if it was Honda or Toyota. When planning for your vacation, do you only use a guide, or do you ask friends who have visited the destination, perhaps inquire at the tourism board, get a few brochures, watch the travel channel, maybe see 1 or 2 travel agents. Now if you have good experience with Honda or Toyota good for you, doesn't mean the person who buys a Subaru or Volvo will have only doom and gloom. They may have just as much reliability with you. My gosh that Plymouth Valiant cab that did over a million miles with its original engine and no rebuild, why that never happened! It couldn't have. Many people have wonderful experiences with any brand car. Rolls Royce, Toyota or Lada. BTW you better only watch Disney movies, cuz oh boy if you watch a Universal movie you'll see cheesy acting and bad special effects. You know what no Fruit of The Loom because only Hanes can make it her way! What's that you got a Pepsi? My gosh don't you know only Coke won't rot your teeth. Saying only X is good therefore Y is bad... One size does not fit all. Sorry to have turned this into a debate of sorts Minnie. Not one vehicle excels at everything, what’s the straight performance champion is probably not going to be the towing, cargo hauling, comfort and handling champion as well. Car X may have xenon headlamps, and Car Y has a vibrating seat, not one car has every single feature you want. You’re going to have to weigh pro and con. Want a car with a huge front seat area? Well something’s got to give, so maybe the trunk will be small, or maybe the rear seat. One car cannot have the largest cargo hold, the largest passenger compartment, the biggest engine and be the smallest and easiest to handle. FYI heads up I'm part Asian, so no I'm not biased against anything Asian. Everyone has a bias -> I like powerful vehicles with high feature contents. I won’t buy a car without electronic climate control and loads of torque now that I can afford it. I don’t like leather, but am not against it. Ask yourself what you want in a car. It may not be the “image leader†or the “queen of performanceâ€. To you, it may be different you might want a car that has huge windows and a radio that rattles your teeth out. I might have an extremely big head and you have monster feet, so we’ll sit in the car differently. I might want a car with a DVD player in the back so I can play Baby Einstein for my child, I’ll get a Saturn Aura, you might want a car with a back seat that slides so you get a Chevrolet Malibu Maxx (The seat slides 7â€s towards the driver so you can “reach†your child easier). You can buy the most expensive Lexus and Infiniti has a feature your Lexus doesn’t have, but your Lexus has something the Infiniti doesn’t. There is no blanket statement that X is all good and Y is all bad. If Y was truly all bad, no matter how patriotic you are (I’m not American so I’m not as patriotic to America as you may be), you’re not going to buy made in America just because. Some people like Tuna, some people liked whipped cream. There is room enough in this world for both. Competition also brings out new features, without competition everything would be the same and we’d stop innovating. If Disney didn’t have to worry about Sony Entertainment, well they could record a video of a Popsicle and we’d watch it since it was the only movie out there. In a world without competition, they had the Trabant. <a href="http://www.bilrim.no/trabant-dyr.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.bilrim.no/trabant-d yr.jpg</a> Compare that to any Mercedes of 20 years ago. Both are German, ones East, Ones West. In the world where competition was allowed, guess what innovation happened. The Trabant may have been one of the best cars they had, but well… Would you want one? You’d have to go on a waiting list, that’s if you could afford, then you’d work for many years to pay it off.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj << Consumer Reports COMPARED to any other publication out there is better than others. >> I've never trusted anything that CR puts in print. I used to read it occasionally, but found their reviews to be way off the mark with my real-life experience with some products. I rarely find problems with the products I have purchased. I've never had problems with any vehicle I have purchased over the past 12 years as a vehicle owner. Some of their findings just don't seem to add up. So, I'll let other people make decisions based on CR while I look elsewhere for advice.
