Originally Posted By Goofyernmost I know, I'm getting old and I am seeing problems where they don't exist but something is happening that really does worry me. I know your going to laugh here but hear me out. The thing I have a problem with is text-messaging. When I was in school there was no such thing as a calculator. Adding machines, yes, But no calculators. Calculators were the product of the space program. If I can remember back that far, I think it was made by Texas Instrument, was expensive and quite large. Before these items we had to be able to do math mechanically. We learned the multiplication tables, did logarithms, etc., all without the benefit of a machine to get the answers. What does that have to do with text-messaging you ask? Well, I'll tell you. Since the invention of the calculator people are no longer able to do math without it. Text messaging has the same potential for massive changes in how we interrelate with the rest of humanity. It will effect our grasp of our language and how to communicate with some standard rules that help people not only understand your words but also show the depth of feeling behind those words. can u c y i m d pressed We don't use punctuation, capital letters or even full words. We will not be able to spell or put together a simple sentence. this will be bad 4 u 2 We will not only be unable to be fluent in other languages we won't even be able to have a grasp of our own. I saw a commercial the other day that actually encouraged texting while at work, during meetings or other inappropriate times. The message this sends is way wrong. If they start to text someone else during a meeting the outcome isn't going to be good. This generation is entitled enough as it is without adding another dimensions to it. I know many of you will disagree with me on these points but I can see it coming very clearly. Is it to late to back away? I don't know, I'm sure we will never go backwards technologically speaking but I think we are headed for a loss that we will never recover from. I would love it if someone or all of you can convince me that I am wrong.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut while I disagree that texting is bad all together, it is putting a downplay on general conversation. I hate the shorthand of texting. I do not do it when I text and it bugs me when other do it too. Of course texting isnt to blame for the language, internet chat is. Internet speak has become commonplace where it was never meant to be. I do agree about the calculator though. I had a friend that was my age that couldn't add without a calculator and I just couldn't get over it. I remember not being allowed to use a calculator until I got into calculus. Now there is a some learning advantage to using a calculator when used sparingly and properly but allowing the kids to use it all the time starting early is not good in any sense.
Originally Posted By Ursula I once felt the same way you do now. But, as I recall, learning proper old English was really, really hard. It slowly dawned on me our language is a living, breathing entity. I am thrilled to be able to read and pronounce Chaucer correctly, though. So, like others, I prefer to text and email in our current form of Engligh and I leave the changing of our language to the young who clearly have more brain cells that I. C u l8r!
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I do use shortened versions of words in text simply because of character capacity on transactions. If I have a lot to say, then I need to abbv my wds. C U l8r
Originally Posted By DVC_dad <<< Since the invention of the calculator people are no longer able to do math without it. >>> My 7th grade advanced algebra student might disagree with this statement.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad <<<I think we are headed for a loss that we will never recover from. I would love it if someone or all of you can convince me that I am wrong.>>> I wouldn't say that you are wrong at all actually. Think about this... The problem with how we communicate is more of a problem with how we care, (or how we don't care) about others. Stay with me now. Empathy. A word rarely used and even more seldom practiced in America today. I often claim that "the Brits" tend to be far better in this area than the rest of the world. What? What nonsense is that? Hold on. It all goes back to a time when life was simpler, when we actually had to work as a society to do the simple things like, make bread, wash clothes, build a house... Today we don't do any of that. We buy bread for cheap, we have a machine that washes clothes, and we don't build a house, we buy a house. The bottom line is, people used to care about other people. "Nowadays" most people have no idea (and don't care) who lives three doors down. Think about it. Text messaging won't be the downfall of humanity, but eventually we will become so disconnected...well I don't know where it all ends. I tell my nephew, (who lives to play video games as a 10th grader) that he might as well be plugged into the Matrix. He has often replied something to the effect that that would be fine with him as long as he could think he was still playing games. Where does it all end? I don't know, but I think the Brits are far less matericalistic, and far more caring as a society than we are. What does that have to do with anything? I dunno. I just felt like saying it.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Brits or Britts and is that a degrading term? If so , I don't mean it that way.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Nothing degrading about Brits. Though I have to say, in other ways they can be harder and less community spirited than Americans. Family means more in the US than the UK as a rule. And materialism in the UK is about House ownership and vacations - these are two major passions of the british people.
Originally Posted By sun-n-fun As a math teacher, I am not a fan of the calculator. My 7th graders don't know their basic math facts!! It drives me NUTS!!! We are just getting into the texting phase with my 12 yr old and he has trouble spelling anyway - YIKES.
Originally Posted By avromark Isn't house ownership and vacations a passion for most people? Not just texting, but look at business communication now. Everything is left aligned, no more indenting paragraphs. Heck it's sentence fragments now. No double spacing before the start of a sentence... It's just sad. Texting should be banned as well as casual and overextended use of cell phones. Use it for an emergency, use it to ask someone to pick up bread, but don't be on your phone all 2 hours of your commute, please put the priority to the person who is physically with you, don't just answer the phone without so much as an "excuse me while I answer it"...
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>don't be on your phone all 2 hours of your commute, please put the priority to the person who is physically with you, don't just answer the phone without so much as an "excuse me while I answer it"...<<< Cell phone usage is an entire discussion all by itself. It is totally bewildering to me how people can be on the phone all day long. They walk along the street with it. Sit in restaurants, ride buses, drive cars, go to WDW all the while they are constantly on the damn phone. I personally do not know enough people that I care to occupy enough to always be "chatting" with them. If you remember I work for a municipal bus company. We are presently working on a plan to try and keep cell phone usage, by the public, on the buses, limited both in volume and in context. It is a huge distraction to the drivers and a major annoyance for other passengers. Apparently cell phones do not work unless you yell into them. When I was a driver it never failed to amaze me, the number of people on public assistance that all own cell phones. It made me chuckle when I would be doing the route that contained the food shelf. People riding the bus to get a free breakfast were calling there friends to meet them there. They would be on the phone the entire ride...they were talking on it when they boarded and while they rode and were still operating at full volume as they get off. Isn't it expensive to be on the phone that much? I saw a man pushing a "liberated" grocery store shopping cart as he went along the street picking bottles and cans. He actually stopped in the street with his cart and held up traffic while he spoke on his cell. To each his own, I guess. Me? I like my friends but I do not want to be in contact with them 24/7. There are times that I don't want to be found and I hate talking on the phone no matter how "in" it may be.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Remember folks, for some of us, cell phone use is a key componant of our jobs. When you travel 3000 miles a month, and spend lot's of time in meetings, the phone is the only way to conduct business with coleagues you may only see a day a month. I get really annoyed at people who get annoyed at cell phones. How is it different then having a conversation with someone next to you.
Originally Posted By avromark ^^^ How about when there is a person in front of the person (they are with) while that person is on the phone, while that person talks to the other person about pretty much everything under the sun. It's not very easy to be in a consultation when they're busy talking on the cell phone, if you're going to me for my services you should at least use it. We had to go to the hospital to get our wing put under the cell phone ban. (Not because of equipment interference, but because you really can't treat anyone who isn't paying attention.) Again I did say that there is a difference between required use and non essential chatter.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Oh I agree, but that is just poor manners, not cell phone issues. It's no different than if someone brought their friend and chatted to them the whole time. Not on in my books. It's like I insist people switch their phones to silent when I am chairing a meeting, and they only answer if it is an emergency (I allow a five min break every hour for nature stops and phone call message retrieval). It took a while to change the culture, but it works. What annoys me is when people judge me for talking in on a mobile while using public transport. I try to be discreet. But the reality, sometimes it is the only way I can say good night to my kids, or conduct business (if I stayed in an office to make the calls, I would never see my kids). Cell phones allow me to multitask and make better use of travel time - often 5 - 6 hours a day. Also, it is sometimes the only way I can keep up some friends (accept for LP and Facebook of course).
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost davewasbaloo, I'm sorry if I struck a nerve about cellphone usage. I wasn't necessarily referring to business use but that is just as annoying as casual use to the other person and that is whether you think it should be that way or not. Business use may be justifiable but it is still a distraction to everyone around you. How was business conducted before cellphones existed? When on public transportation you are not allowed to play your music without headphones so as not to force others to listen to your choices. There is something about the level of volume or the fact that only one side of the conversation is able to be heard that makes it stand out like it is on an amplifier. One could say that no one should be listening to the calls being made by someone else and, of course, you would be correct. That said, because of your needs you have deprived someone else of an opportunity to be alone with their thoughts and if you didn't want to be heard then perhaps a more private location would be appropriate. I have a cellphone but you will never see me standing in a public place conducting a conversation of more than a few words and a promise to call back when it is a better time. Again, I am sorry if this offends anyone, especially you Dave, but facts are facts and this is one of them. Because of extended usage, coupled with inconsiderate usage the ability to freely use phones in public places will be more and more regulated at time goes on.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad I think many people think the cell phone is a "have poor manners for few minutes free" card. It's like the guy that is on a job....let's say a meter reader. He parks his work truck right out in the middle of the street, leaves it running, and runs across the street and down behind the house 3 doors down. His job is a license to forget how to park and where to park. Or say a police car...when is the last time you have seen a cop speeding for no apparent reason or slow roll through a stop sign? Sometimes being on the job makes people forget what they are doing ot makes them not care. I think SOME people, not you Dave, but some people get on the cell phone and suddenly they have an excuse to be totally rude and unaware of their current surroundings.
Originally Posted By Schmitty Good Vibes >>>Apparently cell phones do not work unless you yell into them.<<< I have a real problem that there are people in my workplace who wear these very small cell phone devices that clip to an ear, and if the side of their head with the cell phone is turned away from you, all you see is some person yelling into 'space', shouting out a conversation with someone who doesn't seem to be there. Sometimes it seems pretty creepy.
Originally Posted By Schmitty Good Vibes I have to agree with you, Goofyernmost. I see text messaging as another ‘dumbing down’ of the populace. You are probably right that, as far as recent technology goes, it started with the calculator. About a hundred years ago, when I started in the engineering profession, Texas Instruments made a calculator the size of a phone book that cost nearly a hundred dollars, and it would add, subtract, multiply and divide – but it would also do square roots!!! WooHoo!!! Our surveyors used some kind of freaky devise that looked like a baseball and functioned something like a Rubik’s Cube. You’d twist it this way and that and it would perform trigonometry functions. Within a few months of my taking the job, there were calculators for less than thirty bucks that could do just about everything. Inside of two years, you could get a calculator that would accept programs. I was fortunate enough to raise my kids in an environment where calculators were not allowed at school, but the thing I had to fight against was what happened after school, that is, video games. I’m sure I’ll be offending a lot of people here, but try to understand the context that I’m trying to put this into. I have never seen a plague (except for drugs) like that of the way video games can take over SOME people’s lives. They go to school or to work and, upon returning home, they plug themselves into their Playstation, or what have you, and spend the next eight hours in a trance. Forget the necessary things in life, it’s all about the game. It bothers the heck out of me to see people who devote themselves to this. Now, I also know a lot of people who are into this but have balanced lives, but I’ve never seen anything like this phenomenon.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Ok, I may need to gracefully backout of this conversation before anyone gets upset. I suspect some of you will not agree with me, and I will not agree with you. But I really do respect you goofyernmost, so I do want to point out a couple of counterpoints to your debate: "How was business conducted before cellphones existed?" Sadly the world is not standing still. It's like how as business conduced before e-mail, or air travel, cars or electronic financial transactions? answer, slowly. I do try to be considerate, and in fact I try not to use phones on trains much because of the rude people that give you dirty looks or even swear at you. However, the competition will be on their phones and it is expected that I would do likewise. It's either that or an 18hr work day as opposed to a 12 - 15hr day. >>That said, because of your needs you have deprived someone else of an opportunity to be alone with their thoughts and if you didn't want to be heard then perhaps a more private location would be appropriate.<< Well I agree there can be some very rude jerks out of there, but the same could be said that they could have their "thoughts" in a more private location too. "...but you will never see me standing in a public place conducting a conversation of more than a few words and a promise to call back when it is a better time." But for some of us, we are almost always in a pubic place, and there is not often a better time other than before 6:30 am or after 9:30 pm - not going to happen unless an emergency. So, just like some may be offended by the BO of a manual labourer coming home on the train, or the teenage girl in tears because she broke up with her boyfriend, or the business woman in high heels that steps on your foot. Or the old guy that makes you miss your train because he is going down the stairs slowly. I am another social pariah I suppose. And just like we need labourers, we also need people who live on the road, who do not have the luxury of evenings at home, and live for their wife and kids, extended family and some friends on the weekend. Truth is, we all have an angle. We come from different worlds. And that is why we are unlikely to see eye to eye on this matter. Therefore I should probably back away from this conversation at this point.
