Originally Posted By SuperDry There were a couple of stories in the South China Morning Post last week about HKDL expansion. Unfortunately, a subscription is required for full access to the links, but I'll provide them anyway, along with some fair-use quotes: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/6pqam2" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/6pqam2</a> "Editorial Hong Kong Disneyland has reportedly offered to shoulder the entire funding cost for its expansion plan, while asking the government to turn the loans it had offered to the theme park operator into operating capital. The suggestion seems acceptable to local taxpayers, but it is in fact a roundabout way for the government to pump funds into the theme park as turning the loans into operating capital means the loans will be spent to operate the theme park and will not be repaid to the government. This is utterly unacceptable. Since rumours about Shanghai planning to build a Disneyland emerged again yesterday, we cannot but suspect it was Walt Disney which spread it, in an attempt to force the Hong Kong government into accepting the funding proposal." <a href="http://tinyurl.com/5gxrbw" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/5gxrbw</a> "Three new themed "lands" are planned for Hong Kong Disneyland's expansion, although how they will be financed remains a key stumbling block, say sources familiar with the situation. Funding for three new lands could amount to at least HK$5 billion, since building a major attraction like the Pirates of the Caribbean ride is estimated to cost between US$150 million and US$200 million. Some progress has been made in negotiations between the government and Disney, the theme park's two joint venture partners, the source said, and both parties wanted to see the expansion go ahead. ... But it is understood that changes to the shareholding structure that would result from Disney's offer to shoulder the entire funding exercise are unresolved. The lack of a proportionate injection of funds from the government would water down its majority stake, and further progress would depend on whether it was willing to inject matching funds or accept a smaller stake. ... On Monday, Secretary for Commerce and Economic Development Rita Lau Ng Wai-lan was in Los Angeles and met Disney management. A Disney spokesman said the company had no comment to make. ..."
Originally Posted By Anatole69 It's pretty much the same story as before... more money is needed for expansion, but the HK government is hesitant about the cost and Disney can't fund the expansion on its own because it would make them a larger shareholder in the park, which the government will not accept. So Disney floats the Shanghai Disneyland in order to force the governments hand. Yawn... been there, done that. - Anatole
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>"Three new themed "lands"<< LANDS??? I think they need to concentrate on the lands it already has .. first!
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>So Disney floats the Shanghai Disneyland in order to force the governments hand. Yawn... been there, done that.<< Yeah! NO S***! They pulled that ploy with the city of Long Beach and Anaheim to build Disney's Second gate. They never intended on DisneySea Long Beach. They wanted Anaheim eating out of their hands to do what Disney REALLY wanted to do.
Originally Posted By Bob Paris "we cannot but suspect it was Walt Disney which spread it, in an attempt to force the Hong Kong government into accepting the funding proposal." Now that'd be a neat trick!
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<Funding for three new lands could amount to at least HK$5 billion, since building a major attraction like the Pirates of the Caribbean ride is estimated to cost between US$150 million and US$200 million.>> Jesus, $200 million for POTC?? That sounds more expenisive than the entire park . Will this be the Splash Mountain/movie theme version we heard about before?
Originally Posted By Mr X lol. $200 million sounds pretty extreme by ANY standards (wasn't ToT at DisneySea like $150 or so, INCLUDING earthquake proofing the building!?).
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo That does not sound that expensive. ToT is basically a pretty thrill ride. Soemthing like PotC, takes far more technology, artists and staffing. I remember when DLP was built, the auctioneer alone was about the same cost as a modest coaster.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney I dont know Dave, that sounds a little steep to me. Yes, it takes a lot of people to build such a ride, but for it to be so expensive now when its been built in every other theme park seems extreme to me.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Well the Auctioneer if I recal was about $14m back in 1991, so add that up and multiply by 65, add in the convenayance system, the larger footprint coverage with numerous emergency exits due to the footprint. The project management costs (due to more work packages to be delivered). It is one of Disney's more ornate offerings. Then add in the costuming costs (did you know the ToT costume is $100,000 each?) - look at how many are needed for each AA (and maybe allow for 2 each). PotC is ornate. Given I have run $10m projects that produce no physical structures and have small groups of people, so this sunds about right. And it's not like they just build, there are the other costs most people do not think of these boards - PM costs, planning, commissioning, architectural, storyboarding, machette development and model build, etc. over and above construction costs. And if they do up the ante on this one, it is only going to use a small amount of what already exists. And virtually everything is bespoke for attractions of these types.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Then with the AA's, there is the build cost, the programming, the QA, etc. ToT is relatively simple in comparison as far, far fewer features and points of failure.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo This is why I find attractions like PotC, HM, IASW, and Spaceship Earth so mind blowing amazing, but the mountains of Disney do not impress me that much. And other parks impress me even less. But I know I am in the minority, as I like WDSP and Universal Studios Hollywood too. They produce things that are loaded with detail and intracacies too. Stuff like Buzz, and the latest WDI offerings do not. Walt was all about the detail, loading in so many layers you can never take it all in. Think about it. How many ride throughts of PotC does it take to see it all (think about the props in the treasure rooms too). Ok, how many times does it take through ToT to see it all? Detail costs. I am not belittling ToT, not in the slightest. But when you think about the scale of detail - queue areas (especially think DLP), caves, treasure rooms, auctions, burning cities etc. Compare it to ToT - very ornate queue, but then largely CGI and physical thrills once on the ride vehicle.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo If this is a true budget, we should be applauding high budgets. Afterall, isn't the chief complaint here about HKDL being seen as a park on the cheap?
Originally Posted By Mr X Dude...seriously...you have *got* to come to Tokyo (even on a business trip for a couple of days...sans fam lol), and experience Pooh's Hunny Hunt. You really have to. Your mind will be blown all around (I've been on the ride some 50 times or more probably and I STILL have not caught every little detail !). And then go over to DisneySea..but make sure I'm there with a video camera. I've never seen an actual head explode before.
Originally Posted By Mr X In fact, I think you just put a finger on exactly how I feel about DisneySea in comparison to DCA or other parks that people try to match "attraction counts" with and stuff like that. Walking into DisneySea is like stepping into a whole world of detail and things to explore and discover. It's not "lacking" in attractions, it IS an attraction as a whole (the same could be said of Disneyland, or EPCOT or Animal Kingdom as well). Some other parks (MGM..DCA..HKDL..), not so much.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>Dude...seriously...you have *got* to come to Tokyo (even on a business trip for a couple of days...sans fam lol), and experience Pooh's Hunny Hunt.<<< would love to, though with a similar ride system rumoured for Ratatoulle in Paris, and not having to put up with the indolent retarded glutton of a bear, then I may not have to ;-) But yes, TDS represents it seems much of what I love about Disney. TDL never really interested me more than at a sociological level (especially since they have ripped out every unique attraction except Hommy Hunt - not a pooh fan - and Monsters Inc.). But ever since I saw the construction photos of TDS, I have needed to go. If it is on the scale of DLP, I am sure I will love it.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< would love to, though with a similar ride system rumoured for Ratatoulle in Paris, and not having to put up with the indolent retarded glutton of a bear, then I may not have to ;-) >>> Even if you absolutely *despise* Pooh in general, you'll love Hunny Hunt.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney Okay, okay, I have been corrected lol. Now I'm starting to wonder how did Disney get such a bargain ;D. And all you boys got PM btw.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I am sure I would Superdry. Despite some of curmudgeonly demeanor at times, I find some redemption in most attractions including DL's Pooh.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< DL's Pooh. >>> Now that's an attraction that could cause one to despise!
