Originally Posted By SuperDry "Number of visitors to Tokyo Disneyland, DisneySea hits record" <a href="http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20090402p2a00m0na004000c.html" target="_blank">http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews...00c.html</a>
Originally Posted By Bob Paris Apparently the original projection for the resort was a combined 25m attendance figure. Just shows that when you build a quality second gate, your attendance DOES increase and beyond what you even expected! Congratulations to the OLC, the cast members and TDR.
Originally Posted By Anatole69 This is totally off-topic but Mainichi Daily is great for people learning Japanese. They print their stories in both Japanese and English, so you can use the two version to learn vocabulary and grammar. The only complaint about the paper is it goes less for in depth journalism and more for printing stuff off the wire, and it used to have a real bent towards the sensational. I miss that part of it, actually. lol. - ????
Originally Posted By Mr X Wow. 2 parks, almost 28 million people. Amazing. What are the Florida totals for all four? Maybe we can catch up.
Originally Posted By Malin *** Just shows that when you build a quality second gate, your attendance DOES increase and beyond what you even expected! *** According to the news article The Oriental Land Company attributes the visitor growth to a yearlong event celebrating Disneyland's 25th anniversary and last year's better weather conditions. While TDS attracts a large number of Guest each year it to struggles to match the appeal of Tokyo Disneyland.
Originally Posted By Bob Paris Yeah I notice you've been pushing that 'barrow both here and at Micechat a lot recently. Care to share why that is?
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 Maybe he's just saying that no matter what the quality is, it's just hard to compete with a Magic Kingdom style park that everybody knows and loves? Disneyland and WDW have the same problem, both Magic Kingdoms at each resort are the breadwinners, really. It's the same for Disneyland Paris...but that's kind of not surprising...
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Maybe he's just saying that no matter what the quality is, it's just hard to compete with a Magic Kingdom style park that everybody knows and loves? >>> It's probably true. It creates an interesting problem for TWDC (and OLC). So far, the pricing model has been to price all parks at the same resort the same (except for certain promotions). If you collect the same gate revenue per guest yet have lower attendance, it's impossible to have the same revenue as the MK. Yet, if you invest substantially less than the MK, then you have low attendance and that only makes the problem worse.
Originally Posted By Malin Yeah while TDS has increased attendance at the Resort, it still has the same problems that I see at both DCA and WDS, in that the Japanese don't seem to vaule it in the same way the 25 year old Tokyo Disneyland does next door. TDS has great theming no doubt but lacks any heart or soul and you can no longer argue that attendance at TDL is much higher than at TDS.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***While TDS attracts a large number of Guest each year it to struggles to match the appeal of Tokyo Disneyland*** As others have mentioned, that's the same as any second gate. And by all accounts, DisneySea is a hugely successful one. Epcot, in my view, was a VASTLY superior experience when it opened in 82 compared to the park next door. Yet somehow, it never attracted the same numbers. Go figure.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***TDS has great theming no doubt but lacks any heart or soul*** Certainly a matter of opinion. I prefer DisneySea to TDL myself, and while I enjoy TDL I think it's got some major flaws for a MK style park (Disneyland is vastly superior, and I would imagine Paris is too). ***you can no longer argue that attendance at TDL is much higher than at TDS*** I don't think anyone ever DID argue that (although I believe in the first year some claimed that TDL got 13 million visitors to DisneySea's 12 million, and at the time the argument was that DisneySea was cannibalizing TDL attendance even though the total of 25 million patrons was exactly what OLC had claimed they were shooting for). Anyway, this argument is as old as the new park is. But what I believe you can't argue with is that TDR is a first class experience across the board and a very successful resort (difficult to say the same about ANY other Disney location except maybe Florida in the early 80's).
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones Malin, TDS doesn't struggle to match the appeal of TDL. Attendance for TDR since 2002 is as follows: Year: TDL, TDS 2002: 13m, 12m 2003: 13.2, 12.1 2004: 13.2, 12.2 2005: 13, 12 2006: 12.9, 12.1 2007: 13.9, 12.4 Attendance for DLR since 2002 is as follows: Year: DL, DCA 2002: 12.7m, 4.7m 2003: 12.7, 5.3 2004: 13.3, 5.6 2005: 14.5, 5.8 2006: 14.4, 6 2007: 14.8, 5.7 I believe the numbers speak for themselves.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones If the numbers don't speak for themselves, let's put them in context. At TDR you cannot park hop on a one or two-day ticket. You pick a park for each day. Only on the 3rd or 4th day of a multi-day ticket can you park hop. Some say this "forces" people to go to TDS, but I disagree. You could not get away with this pricing scheme at DLR. DCA's attendance is low despite massive discounts, such as the go to Disneyland, go to DCA free deal. In fact, I heard an ad in the supermarket earlier tonight that stated, "Go to Disneyland on one day, and go to the other park on another day!" They don't even mention DCA. Keep in mind that most visitors to TDR are probably locals who get in on a 1-day 1-park pass because annual passes are prohibitively expensive. Annual passes at DLR consist of a down payment and a low monthly payment, and includes DCA "for free," if you consider how annual pass privileges for DCA came about. Considering all this, I cannot understand how someone can claim TDS fails to match the appeal of TDL. Whether the park has no soul or not is purely a matter of opinion, but I can say that when Roy Disney says TDS is a park his uncle would be proud of, I believe it.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Some say this "forces" people to go to TDS >>> This is a totally bogus notion. Although the 2, 3, and 4-day passports at TDR require you to choose one specific park for each of the first two days, guests are free to choose either park for each of the first two days. That is, in addition to what is certainly the most standard option of TDL one day and TDS the other, a guest can choose both days at TDL or both days at TDS if that's what they want. Nobody is forced to contribute a turnstile click to TDS unless that's where they want to go that day.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney ^^Yeah thanks SD, I mean you can choose a 4 day passport at TDR and never required to step foot in TDS if you dont want to. Thats what people keep missing here. I really dont like the multi-day policy either, but end of the day it simply forces you to spend more time at the park you like the most I guess and yet TDS still gets high attendance. I mean its crazy, I didnt even realize TDS has only been around a million off from TDL every year since opening. Thats quite amazing to me. OTOH, DCA has not ONCE even gotten half the attendance DL since opening and 6 million is the biggest number they gotten since opening WITH heavy discounts, AP's and multday passports and 100 feet away from DL turnstyles is pretty sad to me. I'm pretty certain Disney was hoping the park get up to 10 million by its 10th anniversary and the park has never reached its first year attendence goal yet...which didnt even include APs and multiday passes in its original figures. DCA obviously still has a loooong way to go while TDS has settled in after its first year. Its never been below 12 million since opening although they were only looking for 10 million visitors the first few years. Thats amazing to me!! Ironically the first few years after TDS opened, I *thought* it was doing far worse, like between 9-10 million since it was slow at times compared to TDL, but I'm guessing the busier times makes up for it in spades. Way to go TDR!!
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones Of course TDS seems less crowded on average compared to TDL. While I think it's the better park overall, it technically has less things to do so people are "done" with it more quickly. That doesn't mean the experience was any less than the one TDL offers. Of course, less crowded doesn't mean not crowded. TDS was a madhouse for the most of the days I visited. It seemed to empty out right after BraviSEAmo ended, so in that last hour and a half most of the park, especially Lost River Delta and Arabian Coast were empty. Only a few attractions had lines at 9:30PM.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "Nobody is forced to contribute a turnstile click to TDS unless that's where they want to go that day." Exactly. And they have to pay full price. The 2fer was supposed to get DCA more clicks because you had to use on a day you didn't go to Disneyland, yet it didn't quite work. If a version of TDS was built instead of DCA, many people would use the 2fer on the second gate first! I doubt a 2fer would be offered at all, though.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Of course TDS seems less crowded on average compared to TDL. While I think it's the better park overall, it technically has less things to do so people are "done" with it more quickly.*** It's rather weird though. Considering there ARE less "big ticket" attractions, you would think they'd have longer lines. That seemed to be the case back when the park first opened, but not since the first year. That, coupled with the fact that both parks are pretty much the same size and even the STREETS of TDL seem much busier, makes me really wonder if those numbers are truly accurate (I'll take your word for it though lol). I've also worked in both parks, so I've seen crowds over the course of many years on a daily basis, and with the exception of events like Christmas or Rhythms of the World, I've never seen DisneySea nearly as crowded at TDL typically is. BUT, that's nothing official, merely my perception.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***If a version of TDS was built instead of DCA, many people would use the 2fer on the second gate first!*** Watch out when you say that! Just like all the people who insist "the Tokyo version of Pooh wouldn't be popular ini America!", they will also jump in to claim that DisneySea would be just as poorly attended. Never mind the fact that Epcot is proof positive of an elaborate and successful "second park", nor the fact that any blockbuster attractions they've spent a fortune on have ever really "failed" (nor would Pooh have, imho...but we'll never know *sigh*).
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones If TDS still only attracted 6 million visits sitting next to Disneyland, it would be 6 million x $60, not 6 million x practically nothing.
