Originally Posted By Rebekah This topic is for discussion of the 10/12/2001 news item <b><a href="http://www.screamscape.com/html/disneyland_resort.html" target="_blank">Screamscape: Anticipated Disneyland Entertainment Changes</a></b> <I>Screamscape</I> reports the upcoming closure dates of Disney California Adventure's Steps in Time and Eureka parade.
Originally Posted By ShowMom So sad that Disney is cutting back Entertainment--no Eureka, no Steps in Time, no Fantasmic, no Animazement, etc. etc. Clearly a cost cutting measure, as it was explained to cast members. Whether or not one liked each of these shows, I cannot believe that Disney execs think it is a good idea to: -lessen park opportunities more than they already are--at DCA especially, although Dland has so many rides under renovation that they are hurting for opportunities too. Doesn't the public deserve a significant amount of opportunties for their $43? That has been a criticism of DCA from the beginning... -In the case of DCA--lose one of the few remaining Disney character references in the park by cutting Steps in Time. To be replaced by "Blast"? No characters there... -lose one of the two key points that separates Disney from all other theme parks--Entertainment. (the other key is theming). Without a Disney show and a parade, I might as well go to Knotts for the better rides and a cheaper ticket price. It is also interesting to note that all these shows involved Disney Cast members (as opposed to contractors), so many people have lost their jobs--from long time cast members to 10 year old cast members. It appears that they will be replaced by less expensive contract entertaiment, if at all. This does not seem to be consistent with Disney's usual guarding and control of their image. My suggestions for a cost cutting alternatives? Close DCA on Tues/Wed/Thurs, the slowest days of the week. Keep the quality on the few days it is open. Thoughts?
Originally Posted By DisneyAce The sad reality is that in such times these things get cut. I understand this, why these shows are getting the ax or hiatus.... what I don't understand is why the paying customer/annual passholder gets such short comings while the executives (those remaining) still get to go on expensive Ritz retreats and get new cars? I think Cynthia is as good a president as we could hope, but come on, if your going to cut fat, don't do it at then expense of your customers? I Really doubt executives will be complaining of the cancellation of a EXPENSIVE retreat, when in times like these every job is on shaky ground. I liked Eureka and love Fantasmic to no end degree, steps in time and animazement were not my my cup of tea, but the thought of having the grand Hyperion sitting empty is just plan sad. I swear, if several more sources confirm that the executives are still living large after all the cuts to the park, me and my family are not renewing our double park passes? How much is that? $1,500 which won't get squandered on executive retreats. I rest my peace.
Originally Posted By driftwood714 Im sorry, but I think not renewing your pass based on second or third-hand information is unwise. Al Lutz runs a good site, in most respects. But he posts the most extreme rumors and most people believe it. Maybe IF it is true that Cynthia is getting a car and rich vacation on company pay, THEN I would consider your idea, DisneyAce, but not on rumors and assumptions.
Originally Posted By gadzuux >>Close DCA on Tues/Wed/Thurs, the slowest days of the week. Keep the quality on the few days it is open. Thoughts?<< MY thought is that mgmt doesn't want to impact hotel bookings. There's a lot of gravy built into those overpriced rooms at the DL Resort, and if they want to keep them occupied then the parks need to be open all seven days of the week. As for the reduced entertainment schedule, DL needs a new parade - and soon. Animazement was wobbly from the start so I won't miss it, but it's a shame to have the hyperion and Fantasyland Theater sitting empty every day. One idea would be for DL to book headliner bands again for occasional friday and saturday nights. Used to be that you could see anyone from Kool n' the Gang to the Duke Ellington band on certain weekends. If they were to revive this practice, it would be less costly than having a "so-so" show that plays seven days a week. If it were a particularly loud band, such as local faves social distortion, they could put the show into the hyperion so that it wouldn't rattle the ribcages of folks who weren't interested in the show.
Originally Posted By Labuda <<If it were a particularly loud band, such as local faves social distortion, they could put the show into the hyperion so that it wouldn't rattle the ribcages of folks who weren't interested in the show. >> Just a personal note on that - I think Disney will fall from grace in the eyes of many families if they book a group called "Social Distortion." I've not listened to them much since I was a teen, but I don't recall them as having been anything CLOSE to family fare. As for the closings, well, I'm upset that we won't get to see Fantasmic! in December, but, oh, well - that saves us the $80+ that we would have paid for balcony seating, and we'll end up speding that money elsewhere. As for DL needing a new parade - I have to agree on that point - I've never seen more than images of Parade of Stars and I just think it looks stupid - nothing that interests me at all. Parade-wise, I tend to only like the night-time parades. During the daytime I want to go on rides, have lunch, or take a break back at my hotel around the time in the afternoon when they tend to present these parades. I'm really the most bummed hearing that Eureka is going away and won't show while we're tyhere - it looks great, and I've not really heard ANY complaints aobut it, even though people are willing to bash just ab out everything else at DCA - this sounds like it is a great parade that I would have wanted to see, even if showing at 3 or 4 pm! -Ann Done babbling for the moment.
Originally Posted By DCAKING To all those who are thinking of dropping their AP's like DisneyACE... Go ahead!!!!! I speak from TDA when I say if you folks don't come we WILL STILL GET OUR COMPANY PERKS. No bodies in the parks will lead to one thing, more cuts in lower personnel. There is no way are benefits and perks are going to get cut. We make the rules, not customers, who are only guest in our books when their spending money at our resort. Sorry to be harsh, but it is true. DisneyACE, nice way to make a statement, when the next round of layoffs are necessary, I'll be sure to let a couple cast members know it was people like you that made it the way it was. And the kicker is.... I, as well as the rest of the executive staff will still get our perks. SO hahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!
Originally Posted By gadzuux >>SO hahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!<< Real "executive" material, huh? (I could go on, but it's not nice to make fun of fools). Labuda said ... >> I've not listened to them much since I was a teen, but I don't recall them as having been anything CLOSE to family fare. << True - they'd fall into that elusive "hip and edgy" category. And if they were inside the hyperion, anybody that didn't care for it could easily avoid it. BUT it'd be a way to pull in some locals for an evening. And I'm guessing that some of the acts playing right outside at house of blues in downtown disney are plenty more "edgy" than social d. Call me crazy, but I think that contemporary headliners are "just the ticket".
Originally Posted By Nobody And now for something completely different. ;-) Gadzuux makes many good points. I agree - a theater is a terrible thing to waste. From growing up in the area, I recall passing the Harbor marque and seeing names like Les Brown and other typically "Big" Bands, but was never really swayed to buy a park admission based on that. Later as an AP, I had been pleasantly surprised to stumble upon a band or two (like an incarnation of the Byrds) that made my evening. So, what to do about DCA in this regard? Using Social Distortion as an example, I really think that they've found their niche at places like the adjacent HOB. It would be nice to see bands/acts/shows at the Hyperion, but I'm not sure what entertainment is willing to pay. I have a feeling that the break-even point would result in acts just getting off of the county fair circuit. So, another option (which in one form or another has already been proposed) is to book higher-caliber bands/acts/shows and charge a premium for tickets. I really think that this would be worth exploring (and if it doesn't work out, they just stop the practice). Here's how it would work" * Buy your reserved-seat ticket for whatever it is. * Price would be comparable to what you'd pay to see the act elsewhere. * Ticket gets you into the park two hours before showtime (allowing for quick ride or the spending of extra cash) * After the show, you can remain in the park until closing, or you are herded out if the park is already closed. * AP holders and those who already have an admission to the park might receive a slight price break. (And I'll add that I still think a similar type of deal could be struck for special events at Mondavi, etc.) Any thoughts?
Originally Posted By Galaxie 500 For "driftwood714": Senior Vice Presidents and Vice Presidents at the Disneyland Resort are given Cadillac DeVilles or the new Cadillac Escalade's as standard issue. The may also opt for Chevrolet Suburban's or the new Avalanche's if they wish. Gas is furnished for executive cars by the Resort Transportation service station north of the berm. Car washes and light detailing are also handled there for executive cars. You should be able to see this small complex, and the rows of Resort owned Cadillacs, Suburbans and Impala's from the upper levels of the Mickey & Friends parking structure if it really interests you. The practice of luxury cars as paid perk's will continue for Resort executives in 2002, despite other Resort cutbacks. Most VP's ordered their new 2002 models at the first of this month. It is an arrangement with General Motors and it's sponsorship with Disney where vehicles are provided at fleet rates for Company use on property, as well as personal off-property use by Company executives. The same practice, on an even larger scale, takes place in WDW.
Originally Posted By crapshoot <<I swear, if several more sources confirm that the executives are still living large after all the cuts to the park, me and my family are not renewing our double park passes?>> While it is understood where the emotion comes from in statements like these, are they in the least bit warranted? Why is it that people feel justified for this kind of subtle blackmail. Even if you are an investor, you have no say in day to day operations of a firm. You either vote against the current Board of Directors or you sell your shares in disgust. As a patron, if you let emotions of the situation get in the way of the reason why you liked something in the first place then everyone looses. Certainly, if you don't like the product anymore or if you were in some way wronged by the firm, then ok. But during this current economic situation, the more patrons there are then the better the product. Fewer patrons are going to yield a lesser product. The management is going to do everything it can to provide their patrons with the best product possible based the level of revenue recieved. It is virtually impossible for a firm to build a loyal customer base that transcends generations of the same familys. And no one understands that fragile thing more than that firm. Further, we really don't know what is involved with the contracts that were negotiated with the management staff and we shouldn't. Management recieves performance bonuses based on the level of business achieved for the year. You can bet that this particular year is going to end up being very lean and will very much hurt what these folks would otherwise be expecting. The best way to deal with this is to go to the Disney Parks for the right reasons. Expect improvements as soon as they are warranted, enjoy the reduced crowds but most of all have fun.
Originally Posted By DisneyAce Crapshoot, I LOVE Dinseyland like you would not believe. I got my first AP in '87 and even during the recession of the early 90's renewed it. I know it may sound like blackmail, but the hope is that these executives will get the messaage that cutting back on customer services rather that personnal perks is not going to get customers in the gates. I wrote letters and nothing has changed, though I am doubtful that one persons letters could make even a small difference. What is more important: Shows and Entertainment to help increase the guest paying (both daily admissions and annual passholders like myself)experience or getting droven around in a CADILLAC? On a less than 500 acre resort no less? I know I am not a genious, but that question does not seem like a rocket science one. I and my family will go the parks (on a extremely limited basis)still because they love them, but spending the money for executive excesses such as these is wrong on principle in my book. To all boarders, do any of you feel comfortable knowing that your entertainment bonuses are getting cut, while these executives fat is still around? Do any executives in TDA REALLY need to drive around the resort in new cars? I understand that the case could be very well made for WDW, but the 500 acre Disneyland Resort? Why not golf carts, they are cheaper and save on gas? I love the kingdom, but in hearing of instances like these I have no heart for the current rulers. I'm leaving the kingdom untill changes are made, black mail or not, if it means the current masters won't get no fat off me, I could live with myself. The kids are going to get more presents this year, so I think they won't fret much.
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Originally Posted By JeffG It is possible, even likely, that these perks might actually be contractual obligations. Most high-level executives have employment contracts that clearly spell out their compensation and benefits. Until those contracts come up for renegotiation, Disney has to adhere to them. It is also possible that the sponsorship agreement with GM is contingent on Disney purchasing a certain number of cars annually. -Jeff
Originally Posted By WrongWay >>It is possible, even likely, that these perks might actually be contractual obligations. And it is possible, and being done in many companies, that these executives could wave the obligations to show they are willing to suffer along with the lower employees. >> It is also possible that the sponsorship agreement with GM is contingent on Disney purchasing a certain number of cars annually. And it is likely that Disney could buy their way out of that obligation for a fraction of the cost of actually buying the cars. If the upty-ups wanted to show solidarity with the people getting laid off or not getting raises, they could find a way. Not because it would save the company lots of money (Not giving a 5% raise on $1 billion in payroll saves WAY more than not issuing a dozen new cars), but because it is the right thing to do.
Originally Posted By Jim in Pasadena CA What would you have Cynthia Harris and these other executives do -- start walking to work as part of some kind of company-wide punishment program? Or maybe they could give here a beat-up Kia... And then what? Take a big pay cut too? Start 'dressing-down' her wardrobe? One thing you need to realize about a big company -- Disney included -- when the higher-ups are happier, it trickles down. As much as you want to think it, it doesn't work in the opposite direction.
Originally Posted By Jim in Pasadena CA What you need to understand about the executives at Disney is this. They eat, sleep, breath and live Disney 24/7 -- Yes, they get paid a nice salary, but in exchange for that, they essentially give every waking moment to Disney. They don't go home at the end of a shift at 5:00, crack open a beverage and watch 'The West Wing' -- And whatever perks an executve might receive as part of a package are well deserved! Be it stock options, to transportation, to wardrobe... From Michael Eisner, to Paul Pressler to Cynthia Harriss, to any other high-ranking executive -- my hat's off to them. It's not a job I would want.
Originally Posted By fabdisbabe >>It is possible, even likely, that these perks might actually be contractual obligations. And it is possible, and being done in many companies, that these executives could wave the obligations to show they are willing to suffer along with the lower employees.>> Company cars are actually a good way to save money on taxes; employees of some corporations, such as the one I worked for prior to teaching, handed in expense reports. Those who did not have company cars could be reimbursed mileage and gas for all work-related driving and auto service. Those with company cars were not. (to continue) It could cost a company more to reimburse someone than to lease, which is what GM is probably doing, the cars at Fleet price. Saves Disney money. Saves GM money, as it's "advertising expense" and could be at least partially written off by the Corporation. If I ran a corporation, anyone who did more than a tiny amount of traveling by car would have a company-leased car. Fab
Originally Posted By DisneyAce Jeff... I know that executives have some perks in their contracts, without going into details, I myself have some in my current one, but they are based on merit and business. If the highers up in Burbank are so hard for cash that they are willing to cut shows, everybody knows, contracts can be bought out or renegioated. If the people who I have no personnel against, especially after the recent management cuts, but if they can't or willing not to share in some of their lower personnels pain, what type of leaders are they? In bus. you reap what you sow and while it is not the personnal fault I believe of DCA falling the way it did, the Resort did not bring in the harvest, so why should those executives reap any of the benefits, when from what I was told there was next to nothing to reap from? Imagineering, the animators were ask to take cuts and I don't know if they are on contract, but if they could feel the pain, why not the executives? I check with several sources that say the numbers for the resort area are at levels not seen since the mid-late 80's. As a reward for this drop they get new cars and keep their perks? If this is the case then I am definately in the wrong business.
Originally Posted By cstephens WrongWay wrote: > And it is possible, and being done in many companies, that these executives could wave the obligations to show they are willing to suffer along with the lower employees. So would you say that in every other company that has had to cut back and lay people off in today's business climate, that their upper management should all agree to tak pay cuts and perk cuts so that they only take home what they really need to live off so that fewer "lower rung" people have to be laid off? /cs
