Originally Posted By FerretAfros As I was reading some random threads here, I realized that Disneyland's Tomorrowland may never live up to its full potential that is seen at the other parks. As we all know, when people visit any Disneyland-style park, they tend to start their day to the left once they get to the hub. With big name attractions (and matching lines) for things like Indiana Jones, Splash Mountain, Big Thunder, Haunted Mansion, and Pirates of the Caribbean, it's a very logical place to start. As the day goes on, the crowd gradually shifts around, hitting Fantasyland and Toontown, and eventually making its way into Tomorrowland in the evening. In the other Disneyland-style parks, night time is when Tomorrowland really comes to life. It's the center of excitement, with lights, movement, and usually just a party atmosphere. There's just something about being night time that makes everything a little more futuristic. Maybe it has to do with looking like you're in outwer space. Who knows? It just seems like the other parks always get people in Tomorrowland at night and it's the cool place to be. But then there is Disneyland. As we all know, the numbers for Tomorrowland have been dropping since the early to mid 90's and never really quite reached the huge crowds that were once there. While this could be because of lack-luster additions, I think it may also be part of a curse in disguise across the park. While the other Disneyland-style parks only have the fireworks to entertain huge crowds at night, Disneyland also has Fantasmic! on the Rivers of America. This gives a place and a time that people want to be somewhere else. It just seem that the addition of Fantasmic! came ever-so conveniently timed with the decline of Tomorrowland. Add onto that the Remember fireworks that really were designed to be seen from the castle, and there are a whole bunch of people in the park who have no interest in being in Tomorrowland at the time when it does its best in the other parks. So basically, I'm wondering if anybody else thinks there might be a connection between Fantasmic! (and to an extent Remember) and the decline of Tomorrowland. Sure, they still screwed up the whole Tomorrowland 1998 thing, but I don't think that's entirely to blame. Is it possible that the night time entertainment is responsible for the decline of part of the park?
Originally Posted By FerretAfros Anybody? I refuse to let this die without at least a couple comments... : )
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Is it possible that the night time entertainment is responsible for the decline of part of the park?<< Definitely could be part of it. One thing about having the fireworks so castle-centric is that it gets a whole lot of people onto Main Street. From there, a lot turn and call it a night. But there used to be live music on the Mark Twain at night, in addition to live music at Carnation Plaza and Tomorrowland Terrace. The park definitely had more grown-up appeal at night, and as a kid, that was kind of cool and made it extra special to be up past bedtime in that atmosphere.
Originally Posted By jonvn TL at night used to be alive. It's now dead. It had things that were fun to do at night. It no longer has much of anything to do at all, if you are a grown up. Much of disney's adult entertainment is gone. Eh.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros "Much of disney's adult entertainment is gone." Gives a whole new meaning to Kitchen Kabaret...
Originally Posted By RaiderMouse Without movement above,People Mover or the failed Rocket Rods,after you pass Star Tours the place is dead.I wish they would do away with Innoventions.What is going on with the Lucas deal?The bands on the weekend have been okay.Ummmmm need to put a good show in HISTA.
Originally Posted By Moon Waffle I'd say the biggest thing is the lack of movement on the Peoplemover/Rocket Rods track. Even if you hated the Rocket Rods (I didn't), you can't deny the magic they added whirring around up there with their colors and beeps and buzzes...people hooting and hollering as they flew by. I still have some home video of walking through TL98 - at night no less - and the place felt very alive and vibrant to me back then. The video even seems to capture this. I think that track is such a huge problem right now and I just can't believe that it's taking so long to do something about it.
Originally Posted By oc_dean The whole direction of Tomorrowland in the last 22 years has led to this "dark" place for night time. First it started with the loss of the Space Stage converted into the Magic Eye Theater. For close to a decade (1977-1985) The Space Stage was host to some lively, bright, colorful OUTDOOR entertainment. With wonderful views looking down from the Space Place restaurant top deck .. and onlookers waiting in line for Space Mountain. The Tomorrowland Terrace combined with the swirling Rocket Jets next door .. added a LIVENESS. Plus the white color scheme and some good lighting around the land really lit up the land pretty nicely. Then as soon as the darker color scheme took hold in '98 ... the land looked as dark as your local alley! Today ... the only happening spot is concentrated at the Terrace stage. So ..... it shall be interesting to see what's on the drawing boards soon for TL:2010. My guesstimate is that is the year they are setting for a newly refurbished land.
Originally Posted By Moon Waffle ^Do you really think so? I mean, considering that the summer of 2010 is basically only two years away, and as far as we know they haven't done a thing yet, can they really give the place a whole new life in such a short time? Knowing their track record over the past few years, I can't see how it is possible...
Originally Posted By trekkeruss Tomorrowland '67 was AMAZING. Walt knew how to really make the future seem exciting, and TL was the perfect place to explore and imagine what was to come. Nowadays, the future is often imagined to be terrible, and DL has become just a bunch of rides and attractions that are fun in and of themselves, but don't do anything as a collective to tell a cohesive story.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Nowadays, the future is often imagined to be terrible" It doesn't have to be. There were people back in the 60s who were doom and gloom, too. Some people thought the future was grim. That does not mean you have to cave in to it. That does not mean you can't try and show what we can do, if we try. You don't have to tell the public their future is lousy. What is the joy in that?
Originally Posted By fkurucz What are we going to tell them? That their mobile phone will have holographic display someday? I think most people find the future to be, well, boring. Are the masses captivated with space exploration? No Alternate energy sources? No Advances in robotics and AI? No What are the masses captivated with? Toys: Giant TVs, GPS/SatNavs (which they really don't need), iPods, mobile phones, etc.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt Futurism is dead. Still, as long as there is a Tomorrowland at Disneyland, the company ought to at least try to create something remotely in line with the land's objectives.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>What are we going to tell them?<< That there's a great big beautiful tomorrow, shinin' at the end of every day. The grim, bleak view of the future is cool in movies like Bladerunner, Fifth Element, etc. But I don't think that creativity is so dead that all that can be imagined is a dreary future or one that is only about gadgets. Or worse still, some "ironic" retro future that shows how "silly" those dreamers back in the 60s were. Of course predictions about the future will be inaccurate. That's okay. It's still worth it to dream about how things might be, to wonder about the possibilities. What would a Main Street on a moonbase look like? How will people get from point A to point B? What could school be like 50 years from now? What kinds of innovative energy alternatives are only on the drawing board now but might hold promise? It would be great for Disney to once again take the plunge and ask futurists and scientists and philosophers about this kind of thing. Then build it in the here and now so we can wonder about it, too. Then, replace what becomes outdated. It will happen frequently, because that's the challenge of tomorrowland. Or, take the path of least resistance and fill it with cartoon related attractions. They don't have to be replaced nearly as often, but they aren't much of an achievement. There was a time when the achievement was the thing.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Futurism is dead.<< It isn't hip, its' pulse is faint, but it isn't totally beyond resuscitation. Who better than Disney to revive it?
Originally Posted By trekkeruss The trouble is, there is no Walt at the helm. They need somebody who has that enthusiasm to make it happen.
Originally Posted By jonvn "What are we going to tell them? " All kinds of things. "That their mobile phone will have holographic display someday?" That is the sort of pedestrian thinking that is what is wrong with Innoventions. "I think most people find the future to be, well, boring." Holographic cell phones are boring. The future is not. We should be interested in the future, because that's where we are going to spend the rest of our lives. Props to Criswell. "Futurism is dead." Oh not at all. It's quite alive, you just don't hear about it. There are lots of things in this world that are being worked on. Fusion reactors, nanotechnology, genetic engineering....none of these are gadgets, but are instead future areas to explore for growth and potential. Each of these could result in something exciting and worthwhile. Something most people would think of as boring, chemistry, was the basis for Adventure Thur Inner Space. It's not about little toys that we tire of in a few hours and are outdated in a few minutes. That is the simplistic view. The view that makes us lose sight of what the promises of the future actually are.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <nanotechnology, genetic engineering.> With that (and ever tinier computer chips), I've long thought they should build a 21st C version of ATIS. Shrink you down and put you into a computer, or a gene, instead of a snowflake. Something actually related to TL, with current cutting edge effects. It would be popular (provided it was well done, of course) precisely because it's unlike anything they've added to TL in ages.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Imagine the Tokyo Pooh ride system, with the vehicles as individual "bits of information" (in the computer version) or "DNA strands" or "bits of genetic code" - coming together, then going apart and reassembling differently the way the Pooh system can.
Originally Posted By jonvn Yes, precisely. Excellent ideas that would create a ride that is in theme, and could be fun to ride. First, it has to be fun and entertaining. If something is in theme and it is dull, that's useless.
