Four Seasons WDW ... and, uhm, other stuff

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

WDW Prez InoverherheadMeg announced this morning that WDW will be partnering with Four Seasons for a hotel resort overlooking Osprey Ridge Golf Course (say bye-bye to that DVC Resort announced for the property back in 2001-02)to open in 2010.

While it's great to see Disney getting involved with luxury hotel companies, I'm not sure WDW needs more hotel inventory (even at this very high price point). And I hate where the resort is being developed. That true wilderness area is going to lose all of that lush greenery and at 900 rooms will add too much density.

Also anxious to see what kind of special perqs Four Seasons guests get at this resort. You can bet they won't be boarding WDW buses ... not with that clientele. That won't fly at all.

On the other end of the trailer ... I mean, spectrum, Meg also announced that Disney is going ahead with the much-rumored Western Beltway project and will work with third parties on adding 4,000-5,000 value priced rooms as well as dining, shopping and limited entertainment.

Again, one wonders exactly what Disney is thinking ... 'we'll get everyone from the Welfare folks to those multi-multi millionaires' ... just seems to be very poor strategy.

The focus on WDW has been all about buildout for 15 years now and it's all resulted in overbuilding, traffic, transport issues, staffing issues, lower quality in the parks and existing resorts ... one would think Disney might put the focus back on quality instead of lowering the bar yet lower. Do we really need a Super 8, Ramada and Comfort Inn on Disney-owned land because some VPs and consultants don't want a penny being spent off-property?

 

Originally Posted By DlandDug

They'll try to squeeze that turnip 'til it really does give blood, I guess. What has been done to the Florida property is so heartbreaking that I would guess most of us really wouldn't be surprised to see a nuclear power plant go up. Meanwhile, the infrastructure keeps slipping away, and the Magic Kingdom cast does their best to hold together whatever threadbare dignity they can muster at the second happiest place on earth...

 

Originally Posted By FerretAfros

So it sounds like they plan on adding at least another 5,000 rooms to the property (4,000 cheapo ones and close to 1,000 fancy pants ones). And where do they think that theses extra 5,000 families will come from? It's one thing to build a single hotel, but this seems beyond excessive to me. If they are planning on adding any more rooms to the property, I would really like to see them finish the Pop Century before adding to a currently undeveloped area. I'm sure the hotels are busy during the summer and around Christmas, but I can't imagine why they would want all those extra rooms the rest of the year. I thought they were having trouble filling what they already have (I think I heard of huge discounts at the Polynesian quite recently from some one on here), so why are they adding more, and so much more? This just sounds like a disaster waiting to happen, especially if they keep adding more busses.

 

Originally Posted By fkurucz

>>You can bet they won't be boarding WDW buses ... not with that clientele. That won't fly at all.<<

What will they use? Limos? Flying carpets?

 

Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA

<And where do they think that theses extra 5,000 families will come from?>

Haven't you seen that commercial with that cute couple looking online at www.disneyvacations/affordable?

'Hey, we can afford this?' says the wife to the husband.

*groan*

 

Originally Posted By MPierce

This does seem a little over the top. Does anybody have any stats on the occupancy rate of hotels, and motels near WDW. I just can't see the demand year round there for this much building. The parks can only hold so many people.

 

Originally Posted By calguy77

You know, some of us wouldn't mind a more upscale place to stay. No offence to Disney properties, but the Four Seasons is something I have been hoping for.

 

Originally Posted By Lake Nona

>>You can bet they won't be boarding WDW buses ... not with that clientele. That won't fly at all.<<

You mean those buses with mini-bars and LCD TV's inside the bus?

Most likely Les Four Seasons will also be the first Disney resort to have lawn tennis.

 

Originally Posted By RandySavage

What a nightmare. This is incredibly depressing. WDW's management is finally finishing the job they started with the monstrous All-Star Resorts. I am stupified that WDC is inviting low-cost, outside-party hotel development onto the western side of its property. Walt would be furious...

WDW always felt special to me because the resorts and themeparks had so much undeveloped land - the place seemed immune to the uncontrolled sprawl and overdevelopment that has swallowed America like a cancer in the past 20 years.

I remember taking a boat out in Bay Lake where it wasn't hard to imagine that I was on the edge of the Wilderness. Now there will be Four Season timeshare villas on the lakefront.

There is a very timely article in the current National Geographic:

<a href="http://www7.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0703/feature4/" target="_blank">http://www7.nationalgeographic
.com/ngm/0703/feature4/</a>

 

Originally Posted By ssWEDguy

>> I remember taking a boat out in Bay Lake where it wasn't hard to imagine that I was on the edge of the Wilderness. Now there will be Four Season timeshare villas on the lakefront. <<

I don't think so. The location of these new operations is where the Eagle Pines and Osprey Lake golf courses are. That would be pretty much directly east of Fort Wilderness, not near Bay Lake.

The north edge of Bay Lake is quite a ways a way from there. And subject to external developers of it's own.

 

Originally Posted By ssWEDguy

Calm down.

 

Originally Posted By bayrr326

The Four Seasons project doesn't really bother me but I can't even imagine how much those rooms are gonna be. The Western Way project though is really the finally nail in the walmarting of WDW. And when the hell are they gonna finish the rest of Pop Century? I just don't see where the demand for these rooms is gonna come from. All it really is gonna do is put even more outside hotels out of business but I guess that is the plan. Disney wants to control every part of the market from the poor all the way up to the ultra-rich.

 

Originally Posted By SuperDry

<<< Disney wants to control every part of the market from the poor all the way up to the ultra-rich. >>>

And why wouldn't they? It sounds like smart business to me.

As for why the Western Way project rather than building out Pop Century, I think that WW will provide a very different experience: non-Disney branded lodging, retail, restaurants, and entertainment with the benefit of Disney master planning. Note how they say that it will be a pedestrian-friendly environment. Presumably this means that the lodging/retail/shopping/entertainment venues will all be within walking distance of each other, or with some simple circular tram. Compare this with Pop Century, where you basically have the food court and a merchandise store on site and everything else a trek away. Once WW is built out, I would think that that model would be more inviting to the budget traveler than Pop Century.

 

Originally Posted By calguy77

Just because some people can afford to stay at a place like the four seasons doesn't mean it's snobbish or bad. I can't believe how negative people are when it comes to money.

 

Originally Posted By MPierce

calguy77 I can see how you would take a few comments made so far as negative, but I really don't think anybody intended them to be interpeted that way. There are a lot of people on this board that can afford staying at the Four Seasons, and I'm sure some of them will after it's built. I can't speak for anybody else, but my feelings are anyone staying at a Four Seasons doesn't expect to be hearded on a bus like is the case at WDW. I think the Four Seasons will be a great addition to WDW. The 4000-5000 rooms on WW does not seem like a good idea to me. I realize this is an extreme statement, but does anyone really want to have the grounds of WDW start looking like 192. Not there's anything wrong with 192 it's just not what WDW is suppose to be. I swore I would never try to speak for Walt because nobdy knows for sure what he would have thought about this. What I do know is this was one of the main reasons for WDW to be built, to improve on the concept of Disneyland without all the development leading up to it's door step . Is WDW destined to be surrounded by expansions of a growing city? Sure, I just don't think fans of WDW want to see that expansion take place inside of WDW property. I just don't think this is a long term smart business plan.I could list at least 10 reasons why I feel this way, but I'm even starting, and bore myself with this post.

 

Originally Posted By disneydad109

We enjoy spending the money for a up scale place but I would be happier if the hotels that are already in place( GF and the Poly) were spruced up a little rather than just building new hotels.

 

Originally Posted By plpeters70

"I would be happier if the hotels that are already in place( GF and the Poly) were spruced up a little rather than just building new hotels."

That's my question too -- when are they going to start focusing on fixing up what's already there and stop the out of control build, build build. I know that Wall Street expects growth every year, but can't we please take a step back and evaluate the stuff they already have. They've really let the theme parks go, and now it seems like the Disney hotels are not being kept up as well as they used to either. I really wish someone in charge over there would take a time-out and decide to bring everything else back up to Disney standards before they add even more.

 

Originally Posted By ssWEDguy

>> I just don't think fans of WDW want to see that expansion take place inside of WDW property <<

I don't know for sure how big this thing is going to be or exactly where it will be. But my understanding now is that it would be right on the edge of property, where there would already be outside developers anyway.

It's just that one side of the road will be International Drive as we know it now, and the other side will be something somewhat similar, only designed by Disney. It might act as a buffer?

 

Originally Posted By SuperDry

<<< I know that Wall Street expects growth every year, but can't we please take a step back and evaluate the stuff they already have. They've really let the theme parks go, and now it seems like the Disney hotels are not being kept up as well as they used to either. I really wish someone in charge over there would take a time-out and decide to bring everything else back up to Disney standards before they add even more. >>>

You've already answered your own question: No, it is not possible for a public company to take a time-out from Increasing Shareholder Value. Do you think the institutional investors that own such a large portion of Disney stock and have a huge influence on the board of directors would be willing to let earnings go for a quarter or a year so that WDW hotels can be spruced up in order to improve the guest experience? They would be violating their fiduciary duty to do so.

 

Originally Posted By SuperDry

<<< I realize this is an extreme statement, but does anyone really want to have the grounds of WDW start looking like 192. Not there's anything wrong with 192 it's just not what WDW is suppose to be. >>>

But I think you're missing what I see as one of the key goals of the WW project: have outside brands, management, and ownership but with Disney master planning specifically so that it does NOT turn out to look like 192. There are many communities in the US that have all of the usual suspects of retail, lodging, and restaurant brands but don't look like 192 because of master planning and zoning. Just a sign ordinance would be a big help.