Originally Posted By gadzuux Al's got a new update out today, feel free to comment on any of its contents. What caught my eye is what I've been suspecting all along - that contrary to rumors, there is no "fix" for the capacity issue of the new 'nemo' subs. 1200 pph. This means that in a standard 16 hour day, the theoretical max capacity of the subs is about 15k. Optimal - meaning not hardly likely in the real world. So let's be optimistic and say that it's 14k. That's really bad, especially for the biggest "new" ride the park has seen in over ten years. On a typical day, only one third to one quarter of the park's visitors will be able to ride, and then only because they were willing to stand in a line that threatens to stretch all the down main street. And according to al, there will be no fastpass offered. I see big problems ahead. This is a ride that appeals primarily to younger children. How many of them will tolerate a line that runs for anywhere from 90 minutes to over two hours? Yikes.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "How many of them will tolerate a line that runs for anywhere from 90 minutes to over two hours?" Yep, those are the wait times I remember. This is one of the primary reason why I thought bringing the subs back was a bad decision.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 What did people do before Fastpass? They stood in line. FastPass has spoiled everyone. How many kids do you see standing in long lines for Peter Pan or other Fantasy Land rides? Much ado about nothing. The lines will be long, and if you don't feel like waiting in line then go on a different ride. The only people complaining will be those who hang out on message boards like these, or who post reports online.
Originally Posted By ChiMike While the capacity is an issue, I can't say I think it is that bad for the park. I am just thrilled that they won't be using FP for the subs. That would have been a BIG problem. There's nothing wrong with people standing in a line for an hour. There is too many people on the pathways today anyway! People did that for years and years, with enjoyable results. Patrons are too spoiled nowadays with short lines. If anything, in the first months, the long wait will keep people from going on it multiple times, which in turn, lets more of the daily guests ride it. If the subs continue to be a dull ride, like some say they will be, then it shouldn't be a problem because the line will become shorter. If the subs are a hit, then Disneyland just added a great new ride that people are willing to wait for. I don't see an extreme outside of those basic outcomes. It's not ever going to be a walkon like Pooh, and I really don't see it being a clumsy ride WITH a long wait like Rocket Rodds.
Originally Posted By oc_dean Wasn't there a story somewhere of "AP Previews"? That way .... a good chunk of that 640,000 AP holders will have already seeen it ... eleviating some of the lines this will get.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>How many of them will tolerate a line that runs for anywhere from 90 minutes to over two hours? << That's the way it was when I was a kid and we wanted to ride an E-ticket. And, we had to line up uphill, both directions!
Originally Posted By oc_dean I remember the first time I got in line for Space Mountain in 1977 .. line went out to the hub. Star Tours and Captain EO down to Main Street. And this was before the AP/come-any-day priviledge. Didn't bother me too much. It's the price we pay to see brand new rides, hot out of the oven.
Originally Posted By ChiMike Exactly, and Disneyland needs some of that anticipation back. The ride won't depreciate so quickly out of the gate when you have pent-up demand overwhelming supply.
Originally Posted By oc_dean I was glad to see in Al's update .. that FP won't be used. Imagine how overwhelming the "stand by" line would be .. especially for this lower capacity attraction. One observation though ... comparing to Space Mountain, EO, and Star Tours .. all three have significantly higher capacities. Actually .. I feel the marketing for this ride should be kept to a minimum ... or this ride's line is going to go down to Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln.
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> The only people complaining will be those who hang out on message boards like these, or who post reports online. << You're forgetting city hall. It's a virtual certainty that there will be a big marketing campaign behind the new and improved subs, and it will likely be very effective in whetting the appetites of the nemo-loving public. Once they get to the park and find out that it's a two-hour-plus wait in line, they're going to be unhappy - and understandably so. I must admit I'm surprised at all this feedback that essentially is saying what wimps people are for being unwilling or unable to stand in a two-hour line. It's just seems to me like bad show.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<What caught my eye is what I've been suspecting all along - that contrary to rumors, there is no "fix" for the capacity issue of the new 'nemo' subs.>> Hardly a surprise. I don't see how anyone could think the capacity would change significantly... they're using the same number of subs, and the ride time wouldn't change much if at all. But it is one more ride for DL park. That in itself is a positive thing, because it reduces overall wait times. All those people waiting to ride Nemo won't be waiting in the other E-ticket lines.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 I must admit I'm surprised at all this feedback that essentially is saying what wimps people are for being unwilling or unable to stand in a two-hour line. It's just seems to me like bad show.<< Isn't this what Disneyland was like pre FP, I remember as a kid waiting in killer lines to ride Splash, Space, even Peter Pan. It wasn't bad show then, and its not bad show now.
Originally Posted By ChiMike ^ An excellent point. Not only will walkways be slightly less crowded, but it will ease lines for food and other attractions. >>Once they get to the park and find out that it's a two-hour-plus wait in line, they're going to be unhappy - and understandably so.<< Considering I was bruised up on the other thread for not having the right attitude, I must say, that I find this long line issue a much worse reason to be upset with Disney. Someone comes to a theme park and doesn't expect a big line for the newest offering???!! Regardless, I'm sure you're right and there will be complaints. >>I must admit I'm surprised at all this feedback that essentially is saying what wimps people are for being unwilling or unable to stand in a two-hour line. It's just seems to me like bad show.<< I disagree just because almost every addition to the parks had this problem. The only difference this time is that capacity is lower. Eo's capacity was not that much greater though! 2 Hour lines were not a big deal when they were adding marquee attractions. After coming off of Pooh and other stuff and combining it with the Fastpass system, I just think people aren't as used to the idea of a long line. I will tell you that this comes from bigger problems with not selling a larger proportion of day tickets versus APs.
Originally Posted By ChiMike oops. William you brought up super-duper excellent points, but my opening comment was in response to trekkeruss.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>whetting the appetites of the nemo-loving public<< Gadzuux -- that right there could be the headline for the marketing blitz for the new Nemo Subs! (along with a gentle reminder that fish are friends not food, of course.)
Originally Posted By oc_dean <a href="http://www.lindqvist.com/graphics/Finding-Nemo380x248.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.lindqvist.com/graph ics/Finding-Nemo380x248.jpg</a>
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>mmmm, Nemo. ~~ << He thought so too..... <a href="http://celool.canalblog.com/gollum_and_nemo.jpg" target="_blank">http://celool.canalblog.com/go llum_and_nemo.jpg</a> yum! :~
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> I remember as a kid waiting in killer lines to ride Splash, Space, even Peter Pan. It wasn't bad show then, and its not bad show now. << Not to badger the point, but with space and splash, at least you got on the ride. With nemo's capacity pegged at 15k daily at the most, and more likely 13k to 14k in practice, anywhere from two thirds to three quarters of the day's guests will not be able to ride it - the ride's capacity just can't handle anywhere near the demand. And people are making it sound like this is just a 'short-term' problem. It isn't. The discrepancy between the capacity of the ride and the daily average guest counts will remain for years to come. So I don't see the situation improving much as the newness wears off. The ride will never be able to handle more than 15k guests per day, and even that's unlikely. So how do you market this unpleasant fact? By using the new attraction as a 'come-on' in the marketing, they're only creating headaches for themselves because they know that the majority of park visitors won't be able to ride. The only people who WILL get a ride on 'nemo' are those intrepid enough to endure the two-plus hour wait. If this were some little fantasyland darkride it wouldn't be quite so glaring. But for a high-profile major e-ticket attraction that's being aggressively marketed to the public, they're setting themselves up for a bad situation. Thar be squalls ahead.
