Originally Posted By WorldDisney Okay, before we begin, I already know that would NEVER happen in any of our lifetimes, this is simply for discussion purposes only, but I feel a valid one at this point. I mean reading these discussions about TL lately and seeing what it has slowly turned into the last several decades seem to suggest the 'tomorrow' in the name has become more arbitrary with each new addition they added, not just in DL, but with EVERY TL in every MK park now pretty much. Only DLP has retained any true sense of self-identity since opening, but I can see it falling down a fast slope as well in the future. The imaginneers have simply given up trying to make this a realistic land about future technological possibilites and space exploration looooong ago. Its all about turning it into a sci fi cartoon and movie land basically now. And with recent additions such as Nemo and Monsters Inc in the parks, they are not even trying to accomplish THAT completely anymore. I know posters like O_C Dean and others have made this part of the parks a priority and there have been COUNTLESS threads about the direction TL has been heading in over the years, its need for not only more attractions, but relevant ones as well and it seems to be heading in a direction more and more from its original mandate with every new attraction. Hell, HKDL didnt even try and just themed the entire land to a cartoony vibe from the beginning. Its probably the first TL that isn't based on any real life concepts of the future like all the other parks at least started off with and automatically went the Disney Channel route instead (reason #237 why I think that park sucks ). The TL Walt envisioned in the 50's and 60's has been gone since the 80's when Star Tours replaced Thru Inner Space. That was the beginning of the end of futurism in TL and simply the start of sci fi fantasy. That was the first attraction in TL based on a movie and 20 years later you look around all the TL's and you can count the attractions on one hand that arent. They did sort of try of bringing back TL with some basis of real life technological concepts with TL '98 actually with Innoventions, the Nasa exhibit (is that even still there?), Rocket Rods and etc, but a decade later and we now have Buzz, Nemo and maybe a future Wall E attraction coming. It's now a showcase for Disney and Sci fi films nothing more. Anyway, I know everyone knows the issues here lol, my point though is maybe we are looking at this the wrong way now. Its clear TL has made such a dramatic change its original intent will never come back. When the rumors that the People Mover tracks might get some Incredibles remake and the TL terrance (formerly Club Buzz ) hosts Star Wars academy kid shows, maybe its simply time to call it something that is more relevant to its present purpose? Maybe something in the lines of 'Sci fi world' or something (originnally I was thinking 'land' had to be attached, but I noticed outside of the five original titles when the park has opened, they actually steered clear of giving other areas in the park that moniker....although they are bringing it back in DCA with Carsland *gag*). But something that just says fantasy, science fiction-lite or just Hollywood movies set in the future or something. Something that tells people its less about an idealized vision of the future and just Disney and Hollywood character takes on the future. Of course, that still wouldnt explain Nemo.....or the Autopia, but what has explained that one in the last 40 years . So, what do people think, is a simple name change is in order to represent the area better? If so, what should it be called to mark this brave new world? Or is it still fine the way it is and it's the dumbest idea I came up with yet? Discuss!!
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt I have long believed that futurism is dead. It is certainly not relevant as a topic in the way that it was in the 50’s, 60’s and early 70’s. Space travel is now a regular occurrence and technology is literally in the palm of our hands. Therefore, yes, I think the area of DL known as Tomorrowland could be successfully reborn with a new identity - one that bears little or no resemblance to Walt Disney’s original science fact version of tomorrow. One idea that we debated here a while back that intrigued me was the Sci-Fi City concept for TDL. Something like that, if executed properly, would offer a compromise between a detailed immersive storytelling environment and stretching the futuristic theme to allow for character brands like Buzz Lightyear and Wall E. I am certainly not advocating the inclusion of these types of things, but their inevitability precludes the hope that management would avoid the temptation to continue building more movie based attractions. By the way, great topic WD.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>Should Tomorrowland be given a name change?<< Yeah. WeSitOnOurLaurelsland
Originally Posted By oc_dean Sometimes I wonder why I continue to post here at LP .. because I'm really loosing a lot of heart with the company .. as they have nothing better else to conjure up, than to lazily go "One Dimensional" with their cartoon franchises .. and just throw them anywhere - no matter of it's a haphazard fit, semi-fit, fool-the-public fit .. whatever. I'm at really at the cusp to see that the Tomorrowland theme means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the current regime. The company is no longer able to inspire us. The most they are capable of doing, is throwing their shallow 2D worlds at us, and call it 'creativity'. We still have yet to hear anything on Tony Baxter's new Tomorrowland. We still have yet to find out .. if he's going to make up for that joke called TL:98 .... or if he's throwing his soul and heart out the door .. in favor a full-out sci-fi toon land. We'll see soon enough.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<I have long believed that futurism is dead. It is certainly not relevant as a topic in the way that it was in the 50’s, 60’s and early 70’s. Space travel is now a regular occurrence and technology is literally in the palm of our hands. Therefore, yes, I think the area of DL known as Tomorrowland could be successfully reborn with a new identity - one that bears little or no resemblance to Walt Disney’s original science fact version of tomorrow.>> Yeah, thats true, which is why I cant really blame the imaginneers for trying to keep up with 'the future', things are just moving too fast these days, stuff starts to look outdated before they even get started. Look at Ipods a whole 3 years ago lol. So I dont think thats realistic TOO much anymore although I think having an attraction like Mission to Mars for example is still relevent, but even when those that are seem to just gets pushed aside for Buzz anyway. I mean, Buzz is 'timeless', even in the year 2050 he will always look relevant in some way the way Cinderella is. Its just TL was never SUPPOSE to be about toons and timeless which is why it seems like they have gone the movie route now. So yeah, funny thing is they HAVE gone with a new identity years ago, they just never put it in a press release to tell anyone . <<One idea that we debated here a while back that intrigued me was the Sci-Fi City concept for TDL. Something like that, if executed properly, would offer a compromise between a detailed immersive storytelling environment and stretching the futuristic theme to allow for character brands like Buzz Lightyear and Wall E. I am certainly not advocating the inclusion of these types of things, but their inevitability precludes the hope that management would avoid the temptation to continue building more movie based attractions.>> Actually I forgot about the TDL idea. I only heard about it vaguely in the TDR section here but yeah that sounded reeeaaally cool and something TDL could use. It sounds like it never got far sadly. But I just think ironically we are living in the past with this land. We and Disney should stop kidding ourselves, TL is no longer relevent to the ideas of its origins. Its simply there to promote films now, not innovative ideas. Even 'Innoventions' has never been anything more then to promote company latest products. It only half achieves of what it promises. And I havent seen the Microsoft exhibit there, but I have a feeling it will make everyone go out and get a Zune by the end of it . The area is really just tuning it into characters of the future or from space at this point. I'm surprised TL has not squeezed in Stitch yet like WDW and HKDL. Yeah, the sci fi city concept sounds the most agreeable. Kind of sad they couldnt have went with that route in HKDL at least since that is the most unimaginative TL they have ever come up with. <<By the way, great topic WD.>> Thanks . First one in awhile actually.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<I'm at really at the cusp to see that the Tomorrowland theme means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the current regime.>> I'd have to say it was a _lot_ easier to Imagineer the future in Walt's day. Many if not most of the attractions were relatively simple, engineering-wise. Monorails, peoplemovers, submarines; those were all very much nuts and bolts projects. But now technology is so sophistcated that it is much more difficult if not impossible to build something that would wow people in a theme park setting.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss The TL's could all be like renamed like DLP's, with the more nebulous Discoveryland.
Originally Posted By SoThisIsLove Maybe we could just have Old School TL and bring back all the moldy golden oldies. Carousel of Progress...Trip to Mars...Monsanto's Inner Space...People Mover....the Skyway (yes, I know that's FL). You know what? I'd go on each and everyone. (But that's probably because I'm old and like the nostalgia of it all.) Since it's so hard to keep up with technology, it would be so nice to go retro with it, and kind of go back to the future.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt “Actually I forgot about the TDL idea. I only heard about it vaguely in the TDR section here but yeah that sounded reeeaaally cool and something TDL could use” Sci-Fi City concept art: <a href="http://bp1.blogger.com/_OO7WbmARD08/SCOX4juqlzI/AAAAAAAAG-c/4PdA6TOP9pA/s1600-h/image18.jpg" target="_blank">http://bp1.blogger.com/_OO7Wbm...ge18.jpg</a> <a href="http://bp0.blogger.com/_OO7WbmARD08/SCOX0TuqlyI/AAAAAAAAG-U/UiKJBpbzUzk/s1600-h/image16.jpg" target="_blank">http://bp0.blogger.com/_OO7Wbm...ge16.jpg</a> <a href="http://bp3.blogger.com/_OO7WbmARD08/SCOXwDuqlxI/AAAAAAAAG-M/_Q3_r2mPvVU/s1600-h/image17.jpg" target="_blank">http://bp3.blogger.com/_OO7Wbm...ge17.jpg</a> “The TL's could all be like renamed like DLP's, with the more nebulous Discoveryland.” The name of the land is irrelevant to me. What DL’s TL urgently needs is a broad but cohesive theme so that visitors understand what they are supposed to experiencing. Right now the land is a hodge-podge of contradicting stories and as such, it seems to be having a bit of an identity crisis.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>trekkeruss Mon 3/16/2009 3:37p The TL's could all be like renamed like DLP's, with the more nebulous Discoveryland.<< Trek ... great observation, it just might come down to that. I can agree with your idea there. It's really looking that the "Tomorrowland" concept is dead. At least for now.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >> Its simply there to promote films now, not innovative ideas. << Pardon me while I take a quiet minute to absorb this very keen and sobering reality.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney Wow Hans some cool pics, thanks . WDI always come up with some cool concepts, its just the people in charge of the purse strings determines how cool it ends up . And dont get me wrong, I know the name is really the least of their problems with this section of the park, but it just feels so misleading to me these days in the form its in. I mean think of every attraction in TL now and how many of them actually speaks about the future? Its a veeery sparse list when you think about it. In fact, either things are in the present now or its based on some alternate fantasy like Star Tours and Buzz (which is about a toy PRETENDING to be in space, but getting waaaay too technical now lol). Anyway, yes, there needs to be a redressing of the entire concept and a theme to hold it altogether, but I imagine no matter what it is, the name TL probably wont be appropriate at this point. Mostly everything there now is sci fi based anyway and nowhere close to science fact Walt originally strived for. We actually see Monorails exist in the modern day world at least....not so much about far off space tours acidently getting us the middle of an inter-galatic alien wars. And I als throw my hands up for Discoveryland as well. That's a great title . Thats why DLP has retained its quality so much with this land more then any other. The imaginneers were smart to make it retro, thereby 'timeless' vision of the future from the beginning and give it a name that is more about exploration, be it fantasy or real and things can fit in better. Again, I was originally hoping after DLP and using the same Jules Verne inspration for Mysterious island at TDS, they would go down the same route for HKDL instead of the fantasyland in space they gave their TL...but I'm guessing that park's budget could never come close to building anything like that .
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<>> Its simply there to promote films now, not innovative ideas. << <<Pardon me while I take a quiet minute to absorb this very keen and sobering reality. >> Sorry Dean, but that seems to be the reality, its all about films....search your feelings, you know it to be true ;D. I mean, EVERY idea that has come down the pike is, surprise, suprise, some Pixar or character project. Even before Nemo came along, the Subs was suppose to be about the Atlantis film they made. Why didnt it happen, because it didnt make enough money at the B.O. of course. Why was Stitched shoe-horn in all the other TL's later? Because it did. Meanwhile, when was the last time TL actually presented an attraction based SOLELY on a technological concept like the old Walt days? Uh, that would be Rocket Rods circa '98 lol. Yeah, TL is dead. But maybe there is hope like you said and the new TL that is being rumored may bring some of that back....I wouldnt hold my breath though.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt Sorry, WD, I kind of hijacked your topic a little bit. Yes, the name should be changed, but to what? And whatever that name is what would it reference? At the moment even Discoveryland is meaningless unless they give the area some sort of cohesive storyline. It works (or worked) in France because the designers did a great job of conveying the message of what the land was all about.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>Sorry Dean, but that seems to be the reality, its all about films....search your feelings, you know it to be true ;D. << To quote Luke Skywalker (actually, everyone who said that line in the 6 films ..... I have a very bad feeling about this. :/
Originally Posted By oc_dean I have ONE glimmer of hope. Since Tony Baxter IS in charge of DL's TL makeover plan........ Maybe he'll surprise us. Maybe .. as one of Tony's crowning achievements to his career at WDI .. maybe he'll make Walt proud. We know Buzz and Nemo are going no where. They are there to stay for a while. But whatever goes on the Peoplemover track ..... whatever goes in Innoventions' spot ... what ever goes into the Kodak "Magic Eye" Theater , and whatever else they can fit into the land ...... that there will be some originality and innovation.
