Originally Posted By Mr X I ask this in all seriousness, given the fact that the new Star Wars zone consists of two lame rides and not much else, the new Shanghai park looks pretty weak, and there hasn't been much going on anywhere else aside from a pretty significant expansion in Tokyo. WDW has been stagnant for how long now...2 decades or so!? Are they putting less than their best effort into the parks these days? Counterpoints gladly welcomed here, I'd love to hear some good news!
Originally Posted By dagobert I wouldn't say that Disney has given up on the parks, but they are definitely putting less than their best effort into the parks. There are several reason why I still think that Disney cares. First, WDP&R is still the number two revenue creator for TWDC, and second Disney is still investig into their resorts. Currently Avatar and Disney Springs are under construction at WDW, TWDC invested heavily into Euro Disney SCA to finally turn the resort around, SDL is nearing completition and construction for Star Wars Land and Toy Story Land is about to begin. In addition HKDL received three minilands with two great rides, WDSP got a fantastic Ratatouille dark ride, WDW got MyMagic+ and New Fantasyland, DCA got a major averhaul, and two new cruise ships were built. Thanks to TWDC's stepping in in Paris, the resort got enough money to refurb all the hotels and big parts of the parks. As for WDW, that resort is definitely aimed towards families who only go once every few years. I also think that WDW is stagnant when it comes to new attractions, but it is still attracting so many visitors. We have been in 2008 and in 2015 and between the two visits not much changed, except for Fantasyland and Toy Story Mania. For me that's not enough for not being stagnant, but I would argue that the attendance numbers don't indicate that there's a need to invest a lot in Florida. People are still coming. So many Disney fans claim they don't come anymore, WDW is so bad and Universal is so great, but honestly why isn't WDW hurt? So many claim that their friends are also skipping WDW and go to Universal. I really wonder why the attendance isn't down at WDW and so much up at Universal. Maybe it's because Universal just isn't that great either? Yes they got Harry Potter and the lands are fantasticly themed, however the two lands only feature one good ride, two coasters and an underwhelming screen based coaster. I was so hyped to see Universal and then I was so disappointed. For me the problem is that Disney doesn't have a real competition, Universal might currently attract more new guests, but they lack Mickey and Co. And I'm sure that's a big reason to go to Disney. A few years ago, Universal was also stagnant and they lost visitors, I'm sure Disney will attract a lot more with Star Wars land, even if it's still a long way down the road. For me the attarctions aren't the reason why I'm currently not so happy with WDW. WDW is too big and lacks infrastructure, like a proper transportation system, because that one is really bad. Many dislike MyMagic+ and claim that it is a failure, it worked great for us and I would use it again. It made our visit so much easier and less stressful. SDL is financially overblown and I think that's the main reason why the US parks don't get enough attention currently. As for Star Wars Land, I will not judge it before we have more infos. Maybe there are two lame rides, maybe they are fantastic. I mentioned Universal's Harry Potter land before. One great ride and the rest is okay or lame and people call it the best themepark experience. What I really criticize about Disney Parks that it takes so long to get the attractions built and somehow they are always over budget, at least if you can trust several sources on Disney fan boards. Maybe that changes with the new bosses of WDP&R and WDI.
Originally Posted By dagobert At the end of the day, WDP&R is a business and Disney runs it that way. We fans don't count, because we are just not big enough to make a change. Maybe the next CEO is a themepark enthusiast like Eisner was during his first ten years.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <At the end of the day, WDP&R is a business and Disney runs it that way.> I'm so tired of this argument. It seems to suggest that as consumers, we're not allowed to have complaints or suggestions. It's like getting a cup of coffee at Starbucks, which is served to you cold, and the barista says 'I'm sorry, we can't give you a fresh cup of coffee since that would cost us money.' Apparently, our answer should be, 'Well, Starbucks is a business and they're here to make money' and I should just shut up and accept the cold coffee. Aren't I the customer?
Originally Posted By dagobert >>>I'm so tired of this argument. It seems to suggest that as consumers, we're not allowed to have complaints or suggestions. <<< I guess you didn't read my first post. I said that as long as people storm the parks nothing is going to change. Just because we fans complain, doesn't make Disney change its strategy. We as consumers should stop going there, but apparently not enough do stop going there. And honestly I don't stop going either. I don't know the great Disney Company from over twenty years ago with the best parks. I have visited WDW twice and DLP eight times and not once did I have a bad time. Sure there were broken things, especially at DLP, or maintenance wasn't as good as expected, but it seems that most people don't care enough to stop going. I'm also sure Disney can do better and should do better, because currently they are definitely not doing their best job. I really do understand the complaints, but these complaints happen on a few Disney fansites. I complained a lot too, especially about DLP, but I came to the conclusion that I still enjoy the parks too much to stop going. Now I try to look at the positive things and with all the refurbs happening at DLP, the future doesn't look so bad.
Originally Posted By fkurucz Last year I had my first trip in 7 years. I came away underwhelmed. WDW felt as stale as moldy bread. I don't expect to go back again anytime soon. Unfortunately, there are far too many people who do not share my opinion. As long as they hit their numbers the Disney company will neither notice my absence nor will they care.
Originally Posted By dagobert >>>Unfortunately, there are far too many people who do not share my opinion. As long as they hit their numbers the Disney company will neither notice my absence nor will they care.<<< That's the message I wanted to get across. For us Disney is usually not the main vacation, we either combine it, like this year, or it is just a short trip, like DLP. So for a couple of days I still get a Disney trip worth my money.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I just don't get people claiming that WDW is stale. Especially when the MK has had more substantial additions recently than Disneyland Park. Have any significant additions been made at DL since Splash Mountain? Not that I can think of. Sure, the FL Expansion at the MK didn't add an E ticket, but it added some very nice lesser attractions, a great restaurant, some of the best themeing ever and added capacity to what had long been the most crowded and impossible to navigate land in the Magic Kingdom. Animal Kingdom is getting a whole new land, the Studios is getting a HUGE overhaul... similar in scope to the recent upgrade at DCA. Epcot is stale but is slated for a couple of significant changes. And for many of us WDW fans Epcot has never been about the rides anyway. It is about dining and shopping. Some here just don't like WDW whether it is justified or not. They like Disneyland (with all its faults) because it is the park they are used to and is their sentimental favorite. Fine with me. Everyone has a right to their opinion.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip ^^^ Excuse me. Indy was the most recent major addition at DL. Splash was the most recent E ticket at MK. [blush]
Originally Posted By Dabob2 DL doesn't make large scale editions at the right it used to, obviously (not counting DCA here). But the large base of APs means that they're almost continually refreshing something. My last visit was just two years since my previous one. And, among other things, all three major coasters had had significant improvements. PPF and Alice had been plussed. There was a whole new (and very good) fireworks show with more projection effects than ever before. And a whole new nighttime parade that even I enjoyed (and I'm not a parade guy at all). I'd love to see something new and large scale, of course (which will come with the star wars, of course) but they do plus the place pretty much continually.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip WDW also gets small updates, though if you don't visit frequently you may not notice them. At the MK... The Tikis got rid of the Under New Management version (thank God) Pirates was enhanced Haunted Mansion queue was enhanced Pooh queue was enhanced Pooh play area for young kids created A modest but nicely done redo of the People Mover. Disneyland probably gets more frequent updates than the MK, largely because of the different type of guest. WDW guests tend to visit less often and travel far greater distances to get there. They tend to not react very well if they find some of their MK favorites closed. That is why the MK has never had the seasonal overlays that DL does. The reaction to closed attractions at the other WDW parks seem less pronounced. Probably because the MK is far and away the favorite.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo What has Disney done for the parks lately? Carsland and Buena Vista Street. Aside from Carsland and Buena Vista Street, what has Disney done? New Fantasyland in WDW. OK, except for Carsland, Buena Vista Street and New FL, what has Disney done lately? They're building Avatarland and a big new lagoon show in AK. OK, besides Carsland, Buena Vista Street, New FL and Avatarland, they've done nothing for the parks. Errr...Star Wars Land, new Star Tours, MyMagic+, Jungle Skipper Canteen......
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Dang auto-correct. "Large-scale additions at the rate they used to..."<< I prefer editions, myself.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros I don’t think that Disney has given up on the parks, but I certainly think that they’re phoning it in to a degree. Given the huge overhead of operating a theme park, it’s tough to say that they’ve given up; even with the cuts and reductions through the years, there’s still a lot going on at any given resort at any given time. However, a lot of that stuff has been going on in those locations for years and years without any noteworthy changes Development in the parks has been at an all-time low during Iger’s time as CEO. Yes, there have been additions, but they have come at a much slower rate and in much smaller increments than in the past. Instead of getting new attractions and experiences each year, we might get a new meet & greet or a refreshed classic. Perhaps that’s because the parks have reached maturity and don’t need to expand any further, but it’s hard to ignore that many of the parks still have very low overall attraction counts (Epcot in particular seems to have far less to do than it did 15-20 years ago, with closed facilities all over the place) And meanwhile all this has happened with ever-increasing prices. Off the top of my head, I think a 1-day ticket cost around $60 in 2005; has inflation really been so strong that the same parks are now worth nearly double? If they were constantly changing and growing, I don’t think people would mind the price increases as much, but it just leads to an unpleasant feeling that Disney is trying to take advantage of every single person who walks through the front gates Are the parks still fun? Yes, they can be. Is Disney doing everything they can to make them a great experience? Eh, I don’t really think so. But that doesn’t mean that they’ve completely given up either
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >> As long as they hit their numbers the Disney company will neither notice my absence nor will they care.<< It seems that there are more and more people who feel this way. While overall the parks continue to do bang-up business, lots of guests are coming away from the experience with a sour taste in their mouths. Granted some of them may not have returned regardless, but Disney is going to have a very tough time winning back people that they have turned off. Much harder than convincing people to come for their first time >> I just don't get people claiming that WDW is stale.<< Although there are some things in the pipeline that should be opening later this year and next, by and large there has been remarkably little change to 3 of the parks in the last 10 years, and most of those were one-off additions that do little to change the park’s overall impression. There has been so little change in the attractions, scenery, and even entertainment in that time that certain areas really feel stale Yes, the Fantasyland expansion project is snazzy, but it only replaced ride capacity that the park lost in the mid-90’s when they shut down the skyway, 20K, and dual-track Mr Toad. And it’s also a fairly small part of the park; if you’re not visiting with young kids, it’s quite conceivable that you would skip all of Fantasyland (and the expansion with it), and again you’re left with a park that has had very few changes in recent memory. The castle show is 9.5 years old (though being replaced this summer), the fireworks are approaching 14 years old, and the nighttime parade has been running since the Ford administration; the big cost for these things is the daily production costs, not the development of new shows, so I don’t see why we’re still stuck with them That said, I’m really excited by the changes that are coming to DAK. I think that Rivers of Light has the potential to return to a classic bold medium that only Disney can do (yet without relying on tired old Disney tropes), like Illuminations. The stuff at the Studios is much further off, but it should add a lot to the experience at that park too. However for the time being, things are in pretty rough shape >>That is why the MK has never had the seasonal overlays that DL does.<< MK used to do the Country Bear Christmas show, just like DL and TDL, and never seemed to have any problems shutting it down for the overlay (rumor has it that it may be returning this year!). Their problem now is that the attendance has grown so much that they can hardly afford to close *anything* due to the lost capacity, so refurbishments are pushed off until things are in dire states of repair, rather than continually refreshed
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I think part of the reason I don't find WDW stale is I'm a HUGE fan of the Resorts. For me, every time they open a new DVC Resort it is like opening a whole new land for me to explore.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 "Disneyland probably gets more frequent updates than the MK, largely because of the different type of guests" Exactly. DL. APs have shown that they'll show up in droves when classic attractions are changed, so that's what DL does often. That makes it nice for the once every two years or so visitor like me too.
