Originally Posted By phruby If Disney were to take out autopia and free up that land what would you like to see put in its place? A new land? A huge e-ticket? A new Autopia? Please assume that whatever is placed there will have the proper supports added the sub building underneath so skys the limit!
Originally Posted By skinnerbox I'm sure crapshoot will chime in with the info he has on this topic, but I'll give you what I've been told by various Imagineers since the failed 'Atlantis Expedition' makeover project for the subs. In a nutshell, the roof of the sub show building cannot support a lot of weight. Now, you're probably asking, "How much is a lot of weight?" Well, anything that would require another show building. In order to do that kind of expansion, the current sub bunker would have to be rebuilt. Attractions like Autopia have virtually no weight. So if you remove Autopia, you will be forced to replace it with another 'low mass' attraction. That's the rub. It's a large chunk of DL real estate. And there isn't much you could do with it that didn't require a show building or heavy infrastructure to support it. The roads and various themed elements of Autopia are significantly lighter compared to other typical amusement park rides. Plus, the Autopia doesn't create the typical g-forces that roller coasters do, which is another problem for the sub show building. Trust me, phruby. Tony Baxter has been scratching his head over this one for decades. There isn't a lot you can do with this section of TL without removing the existing sub show building. And since Nemo Subs cost Disney a pretty penny to create and install, we're not going to see their removal for a very long time.
Originally Posted By ni_teach If they are going to do something with the area they would have to remodel everything, autopia, monorail and subs. They are all twisted together on top of each other. You can't do something to one without impacting the others.
Originally Posted By crapshoot <<You can't do something to one without impacting the others.>> Honestly, I don't see anything major happening in that spot until the third gate is opened and turning a profit.
Originally Posted By ksargen ^^^ What Crapshoot said. There's not enough reason for it, honestly. Nemo is pulling in crowds, and Autopia, despite being old, stinky, and, according to lots of folks, a waste of space, is still a hit with kids without a license... If they open a 3rd park, then they might be able to afford laying waste to a big chunk of DL to get new things in.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Even if they leave the Autopia alone they need to do something with Innoventions. Personally, I'd move the entrance to the Autopia to the old motor boat area and put in a new attraction in the loading area next to Innoventions.
Originally Posted By ksargen However a redo of that area gets done (and yep, I want the rotating building to get something more exciting than a series of ads!), it's going to take a lot of time, patience, and MONEY. Lots of area, lots of interconnected stuff, lots of fixing needed.
Originally Posted By phruby Ok. For this thread, lets assume the sub building gets rebuilt to support the weight of a large show building or whatever you want to build there and the monorail and people mover tracks can be removed or even incorporated. Now what would you put there?
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>If Disney were to take out autopia and free up that land what would you like to see put in its place? A new land? A huge e-ticket? A new Autopia? Please assume that whatever is placed there will have the proper supports added the sub building underneath so skys the limit!<< Knowing the sub bunker can only support so much weight: For years, I've envisioned the whole area being annexed off as one entire Aqua land of sorts. Along with the Submarines .... Autopia would be transformed into Aquatopia (from DisneySea). But not the identical attraction - a variation of it. Because this end of Tomorrowland is so tight .. and congested ... I'd remove the entire Autopia loading point ... and place the entrance to Aquatopia closer to the point where the sub's waterfall is (entry point to the sub showbuilding). Unlike DisneySea's Aquatopia that is just meandering around a large pond ... this version is as 'hybrid' as the very word/name Aquatopia/Autopia. Meaning - the ride IS a cross between Autopia, and the DisneySea counterpart. Vehicles like DisneySea's ... but like Autopia ... you pilot your way through meandering "lanes" ... a trough. And narrow. So, in the event of an emergency .. you can easily step off on either side. And this water trough is shallow. Like 3-5 inches of water, at best. And the vehicles would glide firmly against the trough floor. So .. you pilot your way through this very snaky track ... and EVEN come into some caves! With a few interesting "show" elements. Then .. directly above the subs ... the ride would cut across a big pond (aka DisneySea's) Riders on the Monorail would have this spectacular view of this "multi-layered" Aqua land. The ride would continue across this pond to the other side ... and follow a snaky path back. In all .. probably a 7-8 minute ride. Because of the nature ... being in a shallow trough of water .... the grade would have to be even .... straight across. So .. in order to get to the upper grade portion (sub bunker) ..it could travel up a short belt .. like the one in GRR. And on the 'return' bit ... perhaps one little thrill .. going down a very modest waterfall. So ... above the sub bunker ... the autopia lanes, dirt, trees would be removed for a shallow pond of chlorinated waters ... that would ultimately spill down the same waterfall that makes up the exit point for the subs leaving their showbuilding. So, as far as the sub's roof goes .... everything is traded out for elements that are just as light, or lighter than what was in it's place before. And the benefits are a three fold - One ... A completely new and different Aquatopia experience replacing the mundane 20th Century tires-on-roadway excursion - kids still get to pilot their own vehicle (sort of highly themed 21st century version of the Motor Boat Cruise) ...... Two ... the area now has a clearly, better defined theme .... rather than the current muddled Fantasyland/Tomorrowland ... "I don't know what to be" land. Three .... The aesthetic value is incredible ... Instead of a mundane pack of dirt, grass, and over grown trees .. with autopia lanes on the sub roof .... is now a very open "lake" .. spilling into the sub lagoon below. And Monorail riders .. (and maybe - new Peoplemover riders) get cool views of the vistas below. The thing I hate right now .. is this cluttered tree, bush area above the subs ... Is sort of a lost opportunity ... for something that can make the area look more "expansive". Two
Originally Posted By tashajilek I am usually in favor of big changes but, i really like Autopia. I think the cars should be removed with nice fancy non stinky vehicles. I love riding Autopia during the fireworks, it really is special. I was shocked at how bad the WDW'S versions is, there is nothing at all to look at.
Originally Posted By DyGDisney I love Autopia in DL too, though I agree with changing the cars. WDW Autopia is awful.
Originally Posted By oc_dean Hey phruby ...... is your topic a reaction to Lut'z latest column? >> A great big beautiful.... Also happening at the end of summer, there will likely be some interesting decisions made for Anaheim’s future. WDI has now been focusing on the eastern edge of Tomorrowland, including Innoventions and Autopia, as likely their next target for expansion and new attractions. For now at least, the plan to expand Frontierland out into the Festival Arena and beyond the berm is on the back burner, as it’s Tomorrowland that both WDI and TDA admit needs the most help from both a design and operational standpoint. Innoventions is a massive building housing a ride system capable of pulling in up to 3,000 riders per hour, but that is lucky to get a few hundred visitors per hour on even the busiest days. And Autopia is an old favorite that takes up an obscene amount of real estate for little payoff, and it doesn’t help that the sponsorship deal with Chevron has ended its original 10 year agreement and has entered into shorter recurring agreements that can be more easily broken by either side now. << I know of the rumors dealing with the eastern edge of Tomorrowland .. and what can possibly be done in backstage areas .... But this is the first I've ever heard of perhaps excising Autopia out of existence. And then of course .... putting focus on Autopia, and Innoventions is only one part of a massive renovation that ALL of Tomorrowland needs. So .. it seems whatever WDI is scheming ... they can't just address Autopia and Innoventions .. while the rest of the aging TL'67 layout continues to rout into the second decade of the 21st century!
Originally Posted By DyGDisney The OP did ask what WE would like to see...so... I would like to see something completely original, not related to a movie, with no characters. Creative like Pirates or HM, but related to the future since it is in Tomorrowland.
Originally Posted By oc_dean As always ... we have to take anything Lutz says with a grain of salt.... But if by some miracle something else can go in place of Autopia ... I'm thrilled! There's nothing futuristic about a car ride that goes putt-putt-putt. Some people want it clearly for nostalgic reasons .. but since when should the word 'nostalgia' .. belong in a land devoted to things Futuristic? America Sings is my all time favorite Disney theme park attraction. But I know better not to be clamoring for it's return. Tomorrowland belongs to the future. And the car, and the freeway ... are as futuristic as 1955. Actually ... even BEFORE DL opened. Sections of Freeway were opening up as early as 1951 throughout LA county.
Originally Posted By oc_dean My hunch is .... if Autopia "hits the road" ... it will have to be something open, and that can go under Monorail, and Peoplemover tracks .. directly above. But what about above the sub's roof? Questions, questions! ;-)
Originally Posted By hbquikcomjamesl How about an Autopia truly worthy of the 21st Century, that used smart, nonpolluting vehicles? Imagine this: no more center guide rail, and at least a few alternate routes. We have a smart steering system, that overrides the steering wheel whenever necessary to keep the cars from jumping curbs or splitting forks in the road, and a smart speed control system that overrides throttle/brake to avoid collisions, and allow for smooth merges. There would also be an "autopilot" mode, that would turn everything over to the ride control computer (and maybe also an auto-speed-control mode for those who want to steer, but can't reach the pedals). After the guest has been on the ride for a specified amount of time/number of laps, the ride control computer would take over, and direct the car into the boarding station (of course, it would not prevent the guest from pulling in early, but there would be a dashboard indicator to show how long the guest can stay on. And of course, it would all be run electrically, and the cars would know when they needed to be taken out of service for recharging.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros I've never completely bought into the theory that the sub building can't support a second floor. Soil weighs 250 pounds per qubic food, and the dirt is likely 3-4' deep to support the large trees and other foliage. That means that the current building can support up to 1,000lb per square foot, plus the live load of cars going over it. But if they don't want to deal with figuring out what loads can be put on a 53 year old structure, that's fine; they have other options. Looking at the drawing that Dug posted in another thread (link below), there sub building appears to be a loop with a hole in the middle (just above the word "Wedway"), rather than a large structure covering the entire area. This makes it relatively easy to build a second, separate structure for the second floor (at ground level) to host the new attraction. Simply place columns around the edges of the existing building, some in the center of it, and span across with beams. It wouldn't be the prettiest framing job ever, as there would be countless irregulat angles, but it would certainly be much less complicated than the steelwork they just built for Carsland. Similar to the separate structures built for Expedition Everest to support the track, yeti, and mountain rockwork, they could pretty much do whatever they want with the new 'floor' above the subs. There are ways to make it work, but there just needs to be some clever engineering. <a href="http://s325.photobucket.com/albums/k375/newdug/?action=view¤t=SCN_0001-1.jpg" target="_blank">http://s325.photobucket.com/al...01-1.jpg</a> That said, I would be pretty surprised if they try to do anything with that site any time soon. They obviously want to keep the (relatively) new sub attraction, and I would be shocked if they were willing to do any notable work on rerouting the Monorail track. The old Motor Boat Cruise area is prime for reconfiguring, and the PeopleMover track could probably be torn down soon, but I just don't see the current visionaries (both from WDI and Parks & Resorts) wanting to take the major leap to redo this entire area. There have been rumors and rumblings about a 'complete' rework of this area for years. Until the demo crews are in there tearing it apart, I'm not holding my breath.
Originally Posted By crapshoot <<There are ways to make it work, but there just needs to be some clever engineering.>> Way back in the late 1990's was a bluesky rendering that someone at WDI put together utilizing most of that area. It was concept art of the Little Mermaid village. But it shoe-horned in the space rather nicely.
