Originally Posted By gaydsnywitch It's always been my understanding that, in general, you couldn't get another FastPass until either a)your current FastPass window opened or b)2 hours had passed. Tonight I got a FastPass for BTMRR at about 7:30. The return window opened at 8:05. However, the FastPass had a line printed on it saying that I could get another FastPass at 7:55. Did something change with the rules?
Originally Posted By FerretAfros Hmm...that's news to me. It may have something to do with Big Thunder only having on FP on busy days, but I don't know why they would change it. For what it's worth, Roger Rabbit isn't hooked into the FP system, so you can get another one right away after you get your Roger one (or the other way around).
Originally Posted By monorailblue It would be nice to open the window 10 minutes before your return time--that would allow you to pick one up before going to ride, rather than after. Hmmm. Of course, if it were up to me, we'd drop FastPass entirely. The benefit (to the few) is not worth the cost (to everyone), in my veiw.
Originally Posted By liveforvacations monorailblue-I don't understand your statement about Fastpass being only a benefit to a few but a cost to everyone else. I would love if you could explain it to me because I have never understood the opposition to Fastpass and why people choose to stand in the regular line but I would love to hear your point of view.
Originally Posted By dsnykid I can not speak for Monorailblue, but in my experience, Fastpass in Disneyland has rarely proven to be faster. Often we bypass maybe 20 people to join in with everyone in the standby line, where we then still have to wait. I don't see us saving more than 5 or 10 minutes, which we used going to and from the ride when we picked up our fastpass in the first place. During the high summer crowds it did seem to save us a bit more time, but this time of year it seems to be useless. Also, from remembering when there were no fastpasses, the lines and the time you seem to spend in them has not changed at all, and fastpass was supposed to shorten both the standby line and your wait time while using fast pass.
Originally Posted By barboy "The benefit (to the few) is not worth the cost (to everyone), in my veiw." I'll take an unsolicited stab at what he(or she) might well mean by that. There is a limited # of FP's available to the general population of the park on any given day compared to the standby and these FP holders("elitists") get to march right by the masses of lowly poor saps in standby creating a social inequity---- just a stab in the dark?? For the record I am a strong supporter of FP.
Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains I fastpassed Space Mountain in January when I came back to ride the standby line was 85 min - I walked up the fastpass line entered the queue and waited 15-20 min. Last summer I fastpassed splash - wait time was around 2hrs - I walked in at the fastpass entrance and waited no more than 20-30 min... BOth these I am using as my examples had me bypassing the long line outside and entering the queue inside splash had me even further inside before I was joining the standby line.
Originally Posted By barboy "If you snooze, you lose" "the early bird catches the worm" "survival of the fittest" Since these cliches are my battle cry at the parks I favor FP.
Originally Posted By serendipityaey Of course, FP is next to useless on slow days, so we don't use it on slow days. During the summer, it's invaluable to me. It just takes a little planning, and the day goes much smoother.
Originally Posted By alexbook I like FP now that I understand it, but it took a while. I think they could do a much better job of explaining it. Too often, I've heard complaints from people in the non-FP line about how the CM's were letting people (FP holders) "cut ahead."
Originally Posted By karlg Re #3 by monorailblue: >>>It would be nice to open the window 10 minutes before your return time--that would allow you to pick one up before going to ride, rather than after. Hmmm.<<< This is really not necessary as you can wait to go on the ride until the start of the FP window. The "rule of thumb" is to not go on a FP attraction unless you have already gotten your next FP. >>>Of course, if it were up to me, we'd drop FastPass entirely. The benefit (to the few) is not worth the cost (to everyone), in my veiw.<<< While I don't fully agree with you, it is obvious that the FP system benefits most those that know the "rules" both written and (worse) unwritten and therefore those that need it least. Of course those with the most park experience and the locals know more of the unwritten rules. So the FP system is disproportionately unfavorable to the new/occasional vistor from out of town (and supposidly the ones Disney would most want to come to the park). These people are less likely to know the unwritten rules or to press the rules to their limit. The most important unwritten rule is that they will (at DL) accept your FP any time that day after the start time (they don't care about the end time). This means you can collect FP in the morning when the park is nearly empty and use them later in the day when the park is full. The occasional visitor likely to get busy and/or not want to make the walk back to the attraction in the prescribed window will break off touring one area to rush back to make the FP return window or not use the FP thinking they blew it by missing the window. Whereas the "knowledgable person" knows they can pocket the FP and use it later. Early in the day, you are much better off to go on non-FP attractions while collecting FP's to use later in the day. If I were running the place, I would keep FP but change the rules. I would increase the FP return window to 2 hours but then make it a "hard" rule with the only exception being that if the ride broke down, they could stamp the FP for use for the rest of the day. I would also let ticket holders get up to 5 FP per day but at most 1 per hour (regardless of the start time of the previous FP) and anual pass holders would get say 2 per day and 1 per hour. The idea here is to give an advantage to the more occasional guest who is also paying more per day to visit.
Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains < anual pass holders would get say 2 per day and 1 per hour. The idea here is to give an advantage to the more occasional guest who is also paying more per day to visit.> So AP's already don't get any of the other package or hopper bonus's (priority seating, early entry, morning madness...) and because I have an AP and am willing to drive 6 hours each way a few times of year and spend money in the parks and on hotels you would then suggest that I not be able to get as many FP as the occasional guest??? That seems quite unfair - why don't they make the FP only for AP's (we've seen the queues plenty of times so maybe we should just get to bypass them)... See that would be unfair too.
Originally Posted By karlg >>>So AP's already don't get any of the other package or hopper bonus's (priority seating, early entry, morning madness...) and because I have an AP and am willing to drive 6 hours each way a few times of year and spend money in the parks and on hotels you would then suggest that I not be able to get as many FP as the occasional guest??? That seems quite unfair - why don't they make the FP only for AP's (we've seen the queues plenty of times so maybe we should just get to bypass them)... See that would be unfair too.<<< You really believe that the typical person with AP's doesn't have a huge advantage over the occasional guest? A typical family with kids is at a huge disadvantage compared to a typical local or a regular guest with an AP who is paying something like half as much per day on average. If you think the park hoppers give such a great deal compared to an AP, then there is nothing keeping you from buying a park hopper when you visit. For the typical non-local, the cost of hotels and transportation is much more than the ticket costs.
Originally Posted By monorailblue FastPass does two horrible things, in my view: 1. It regiments your day & splits people up. On a busy day, if you are a FastPass user, you have to constantly think about getting and using passes. Often, someone from the group has to run around getting passes (or new passes), only to meet up with everyone else somewhere else. You race to get that Space FastPass, then race to Indy to ride before the line is too long, and as soon as you are able, you might have to flee from wherever you are to get your Splash pass. And then you have to remember where and when to use what. (Note: this presupposes that most users don't treat their FPs as open-ended, which we know they are.) I hate the way FP makes you a slave to your watch. It was never like that before. You just wandered. 2. FastPass creates crowds, embitters Guests, and depends on ignorance. The system only works because there are many who do not understand how to use it (or don't really know about it at all). It favors those who can and know to run around, watching the clock like hawks, punishing those who don't read English, don't visit often, aren't very fast, or who otherwise go to Disneyland and just get in line like everyone else did for 40 years. Vast amounts of queue space are totally unused (virtually 50% each of Thunder and Splash, much of the interior of Space), forcing crowds into the streets. The very idea that you are "virtually" in line is enticing, until you realize that with thousands only virtually in line, they must physically be somewhere else--very often, running like maniacs through crowded walkways to get to the FP machines. One poster expressed earlier how happy he/she was to bypass two very long standby lines. Without FP, those lines would never have been so long, or so slow moving. Those who "have" to wait in standby lines because the FPs are gone for the day have to wait much, much, much, much longer so that a bunch of others don't have to wait at all. This, to me, is saddening. Now, these threads come up from time to time, and I'm about to be barraged by about a half-dozen LPers who will argue until they nearly faint that FP is fair because anyone can use it, anyone can arrive early, etc., etc. That is a magnificent textbook theory. The problem? It IS NOT reality. Frequent visitors, Disney freaks (like most of us), locals, those who arrive early, those who can dash around the most (like those who are young and visiting without children) DO take advantage of the system to the detriment of everyone--to themselves, because the park in general is a less pleasant place to be (i.e. it is choked and bottlenecked on a ridiculous scale), and to non-FP experts in particular who bear the burden so that you can skip ahead. That is the reality, not a fantastic theory. And I don't believe for a moment that FP was designed to be fair. It was designed as it is (and has been maintained that way) precisely because it creates tiers in Guests--becuase those who place themselves in the upper tier also tend to spend more and come more often. Let's return to days when you could just meander around, joining the lines you wanted, and really enjoy the place without regard to "windows" and "priority seating" and all that. And that's just an opinion from someone who has attended reguarly for a few decades and, together with work, has been to Disneyland at least 500 times. It was better before FP, and would be better again without.
Originally Posted By monorailblue All that having been said, I ABSOLUTELY agree with the idea that a daily limit and a hard "end time" for the return window should be implemented. They always should have been part of FP. It is nonsensical to allow returns at any time. You could literally have 3000 people show up at Splash at 10:00 p.m., for example. The poor standby line would not move at all for over an hour!
Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains I happen to have 4 children and live near SF We all have AP's....We do drive down during the year and yes we save money by buying the AP - but that doesn't mean we should be limited on our fp either. We stay in hotels and spend money on gas - and we spend money in the parks - probably more than the occasional visitor as we are there more often... Park Hoppers do give advantages that Ap's don't which is why I would say most Apers buy a hopper and upgrade to an AP so they can have those advatages once a year. Just because many of us choose to make DL our vacation of choice doesn't mean we should be penalized... Why doesn't the occasional guest do their homework and learn the ins and outs of the park.
Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains Maybe they should just remove the end time from the pass and have it say return after 0:00 - Once they realized they weren't holding people the the return time they just didn't eliminate it.
Originally Posted By serendipityaey I have never, nor have I ever seen anyone, rush around like a maniac to get a FP. That sounds ridiculous. I get a FP when I'm in the area and then move on. You have valid points, but you're exagerating to make them which only undermines you're entire argument.
Originally Posted By liveforvacations Although I do understand what you are saying monorailblue, I still think Fastpass is a great idea. I believe the Fastpass system is fair because everyone has the option to educate themselves and if they chose not to, that is their choice. I don't agree with the unwritten rule that a fastpass never expires and I think this is unfair as the average guest cannot expect to know this and it does create an unfair advantage. I know that people will think I am weird but even though I do know this, I never use an "expired" Fastpass because I just don't feel right about it! I agree with you that Fastpass does seem to overtake some people's day at the park but it does not have to be that way. We pick up a Fastpass while we are passing by going to another attraction-like BTMRR on the way to Fantasyland or before we go to Tom Sawyer Island or before we have a meal and then use them at our leisure if it fits into our schedule. We often will just not use them if it does not suit us! I didn't attend Disneyland as much before Fastpass but in my limited exposure, I didn't notice that the lines were any shorter than they are now. I only go in off-season and try to avoid weekends so this may make a difference. I guess I just don't understand that when the line is long but you can get a fastpass that is good in a few hours, why you would not just do something else for that time and come back and use your fastpass than wait in line? I am an AP for the first time and not likely to be one again as I don't get to go very often but am getting in a few trips this year, but I don't think people visiting for a day should get any more or less than an AP and vice versa. Fastpass is especially useful to us for rides that my little one cannot go on. That way, we can get four fastpasses and I can go on the ride with my daughter and then my husband can go on the ride with my daughter without us both waiting in a long line and my daughter waiting in two long lines. I think Fastpass is fabulous but I wouldn't let it rule my day at Disneyland. The spontaneous things are most often the most enjoyable and memorable!
