Originally Posted By Admin This topic is for Discussion of: <a href="http://www.LaughingPlace.com/Blogs/Maletic/View-155.asp" target="_blank">11/30/07 In Defense of Space Mountain</a>
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I do not, but I can see where you are coming from. Just like I love the Matterhorn as it was my first coaster, and a complete submersion into another world. Therefore I respect your opinion. FWIW, in it's day SM rocked. I just find it hard to believe it's someone's fav. As a kid I used to adore PB&J, but I would still rather eat Fillet Mignon ;-) But I love the fact you shared your perception. I think it is those formative experiences of our youth that shapes our love of Disney now. And just like I love TRON and the deep impact it had on my life, I know others do not share y love of this film.
Originally Posted By brotherdave I most heartily agree, Greg! As a coaster, MK's Space Mountain was indeed innovative as the first 'modern' coaster in the dark. Although small by today's monster thrill rides at other parks, Space Mountain still delivers a great ride experience without resorting to gimmicky (and often uncomfortable) loops. Yes, the effects need sprucing up, but overall, the ride is still a fun one more than 30 years later. And I agree that, especially considering its age, that the ride is not as rough as some suggest. In fact, it's very smooth when compared to many steel coasters in operation today. I also find the layout much more interesting and fun than Disneyland's. Sure, DL has the better effects now and onboard music. But, as a coaster junkie, those are just gimmicks that sometime interfere with the the actual ride experience. Take away both, and Disneyland's Space Mountain is a rather boring ride. MK's Space Mountain is still fun, even with the house lights turned on. (Yes, I did get to ride MK's Space Mountain with the lights on last year, and it was still a very fun coaster that I feel most amusement parks would love to have in their ride line-up!) Now, can MK's Space Mountain be improved? Sure, especially with the theming and presentation (darker would be better, obviously!) But, as for the ride itself, it will be tough to find something as thrilling, yet family friendly, to equate to it. I truly hope that during its reconstruction, that the layout remains the same. I love the dual track design, as well as the single seat layout of the trains which gfves a more 'personal' experience than side by side seating. The Magic Kingdom's Space Mountain will always be one of my favorite fun coaster experiences!
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Well I can't agree - I prefer both DL's and DLP's - but certainly the MK's has its strong points. And there's nothing wrong with personal nostalgia.
Originally Posted By a1stav "Most of all, I love the show building itself; at more than twice the size of any other Space Mountain show building, it's simply awesome..." That's why I think the show building is being wasted with the just OK two track layout. It would be far better with one longer track. With clever track design you could easly recreate the little airtime bumps and quick turns that you like about the ride. The track design is similar to the Schwarzkopf / Jet Star coaster that has been removed from most amusement parks that ever had them. <a href="http://www.rcdb.com/ig355.htm?picture=1" target="_blank">http://www.rcdb.com/ig355.htm? picture=1</a> Of course the comparison to the matterhorn is undeniable. SM is basically the matterhorn in the dark. It can be so much more.
Originally Posted By fkurucz I was very underwhelmed with MK's SM. I think DL's is heads and shoulders above it.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I'm going to have to disagree. Yes, I think it has a great building and the inside of building is masive. But DLR Space Mountain is much, much better done, smoother ride, ride vehicles where you ride side by side, and SOUND. If you are squarely comparing roller coast to roller coaster... DLR wins hands down. WDW Space Mountain has a ways to go to catch up.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Its funny Dave that you brought up the Matterhorn Bobsleds. I much rather prefer the Matterhorn Bobsleds to WDW Space Mountain. Having the ride vehicle going in and out of the Matterhorn mountain so you can look out while you race down the mountain is so much more fun.
Originally Posted By Disneyland55 WDW SM is my favorite too. I have only been on DL, WDW, and DLP's SM, but have heard that the other two are not that great. I agree with what you said, plus I also really like the queue area with the stars, commets, etc. You can also see SM vehicles go by, which I think is neat.
Originally Posted By MPierce That was a fair judgement Greg. Most everyones favorite ride is based on nosalgia or just how a particular ride effects you. Everybody is entitled to their own favorite ride. In the end it doesn't matter what anybody else thinks, as long as the ride makes you smile.
Originally Posted By leobloom I agree with you Greg. WDW's Space is the most minimalist of the pack, and I think its simplicity is its superiority. I hope they don't put a soundtrack to WDW's Space, because I think the music would distract from the experience. It's much more fulfilling to hear the other cars racing around the track and the screams of other riders. In short, anything to keep Space from turning into RnRC II is good. RnRC is just a disappointment to anyone who likes good rollercoasters or good on-board scenery.
Originally Posted By lauwmw I find the articles and comments to be interesting. I designed both the WDW and the DL rides so it would be hard for me to favor either one; kind of like comparing your two children. When I designed the WDW ride, I did not know what kind of a building it would be installed in, so I had a lot of freedom except that my boss insisted that I use a Matterhorn type vehicle. To achieve the capacity that is required for an "E-Ticket" ride it was necessary to have two-car trains and two tracks. (Matterhorn had individual cars at that time). My only experiance in coaster design was a test track that we used for Big Thunder Railway. That project was set aside when it was decided that Space Mountain had priority. I had already written most of the computer programs and was able to use the test track to evaluate the necessary coefficients, but the thing I didn't know is what the roll rates should be into the banked turns. Some of those turned out to be a little excessive for a dark ride and we went back and changed them. When it came time to design the DL version, the frst issue was the space available at DL. The building would be much smaller. To get sufficient capacity the vehicles had to be larger and therefore the track had to be larger. And it all had to fit in a 200 ft. diameter building. So the spiraling down through the several right hand turns was because there wasn't room to double back. And in order to accommodate the guests that felt that WDW was too wild, the roll rates into the curves are about half of the worst-case WDW rate. I don't feel that roll rates have much to do with thrill factor; it's more of a comfort issue. I had nothing to do with the Paris SM, and I've never been there. The Tokyo and Hong Kong SMs are identical to DL.
Originally Posted By gmaletic >I hope they don't put a soundtrack to WDW's Space, because I think the music would distract from the experience. It's much more fulfilling to hear the other cars racing around the track and the screams of other riders. I agree. I'm not opposed to the idea of a soundtrack for a roller coaster, but in general I've found the music they've selected for the Disney roller coasters--the Space Mountains and California Screamin'--to be a real disappointment. If they do add sound, I think I'd rather have it be sound effects than music.
Originally Posted By gmaletic >I designed both the WDW and the DL rides Very glad to have your comments! Are you George McGinnis?
Originally Posted By lauwmw George McGinnis designed the show. I am the engineer that designed the track, the track equipment and the vehicle chassis. Other specialists did the body styling and the electronics. My name is Bill Watkins.
Originally Posted By gmaletic Hi, Bill; very glad to have you join the conversation. It's interesting: I almost wouldn't have guessed that the same person designed the two tracks, they seem so different. Beyond the logistical changes that you detailed in your post (necessitated by the smaller show building), did you feel that you were trying to deliberately create a ride that felt different? Or was it solely due to the logistical issues?
Originally Posted By gmaletic Sorry...that last post was a little vague. My question about "deliberately creating a ride that felt different" refers to Disneyland's Space Mountain.
Originally Posted By lauwmw The simple answer is that the ride is designed to fit the building, but there are so many parameters that influence the thousands of decisions that were made. I suppose that to entertain the guests is paramount, but safety is an overiding factor. But who knows what it takes to be entertaining. You could study that and plot responses . You would probbably get a classic bell curve with most people saying that they enjoyed it to various degrees, but at one end you would have peole saying that it was the worst experienc of their lives and on the other end that it was so dull that they had a hard time keeping from falling asleep. So the answer is that, after experiencing response to WMW, I established a set of parameters that I felt would satisfy the majority of the millions of people who would ride it. If you're interested, you should look at: http://www.mouseplanet.com/mark/mg051026bw.htm and click on the link to an earlier article by George McG and I. Bill
