Originally Posted By AutoPost This topic is for Discussion of: <a href="http://www.LaughingPlace.com/News-ID512200.asp" target="_blank"><b>LP Column: 5/27/08 Greg Maletic: Disney's Biggest Theme Park Mistakes - The Follow Up</b></a> Greg responds to some of the comments and clarifies some of his positions from his last controversial column - Disney's Biggest Theme Park Mistakes.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I had no idea that the folksong at the end of the Canadian film was made up by Disney. In all honesty, I never gave it a passing thought. Maybe you have been sniffing the pixie dust too long and need to go to Vegas or Cancun on your next vacation! Just kidding...sort of. Same pricing for all parks? Couldn't agree with you more on that one.
Originally Posted By bloken While I must say I agree with the pricing point of parks, I do understand that Disney wants to see in their eyes that all parks are equal and while you may not be paying so much for rides but overall experiences. And while of course you can always take your dollar to the unmentionable, Universal, Disney promises and delivers on park memories that will last a lifetime not moments that pass in a blind blur. With that being said the whole “not taking the previous formula†can be a big deal for the company to invest in something that they consider a high risk investment. And with no known characters or stories putting in a theme park ride that doesn't get the guest involved just thinking about it, as per say Nemo does, is a bad idea to them. Nemo invokes memories of the movie and make them remember that and bring that into the ride where Disney can add elements to the existing character. It's a no risk situation guaranteed to get the guest involved. Now let me also say I can’t stand the new Nemo seas ride. I think it’s awful and a horrible situation all together, so I am on your side. I think if the company could go back to an idealist vision that Walt wanted they would still be producing those rides, however when you invite corporate sponsors to the ride and they have their say and things like that you start to loose the overall ride value and it comes to who have the best characters or ride vehicle. Maybe we can pray someday that they will be smart enough to hire someone who cares about the Disney name and not all the glory. With all this being said I guess the point that we are their guest proves no relevance to the company at all seeing as how its usually up to a guest to point out the things that need improving. I think maybe we should try at getting more insider views from imagineers themselves. Perhaps that could give us something to look forward to… As for me I’m keeping eyes to the skies hoping that they can make a ride that will measure up to HM or POTC.
Originally Posted By dirkcoil I have to agree with the issue with DVC. I can't stand seeing DVC kiosks everywhere I go. How much is enough? It seems like Disney gets something and they go overboard with it, most of the time. That includes adding Disney to the front of everything in the resort. We all know it's Disney so why drill it into us more? Also with all the gift shops at the end of every ride. Why?!?!?!? I used to love the small Pirates gift shop at the end of POTC but they took that away and made that whole courtyard one huge gift shop. Again, WHY?!?!?!? Why remove great, nostalgic places like The Magic Shops, Penny Arcade and such and put more stores that sell the same crap as the one next door? One of my biggest concerns is, when did Disney stop caring about the guest and go to the extreme of just money matters? Very rarely now, do you actually go there and feel like you could just relax and have fun. You see the prices for admission, if you don't have passes, parking(paying $11 just to park somewhere?) food, don't get me started on that, both quality and quantity have diminished along with variety, and to the last when were ready to go, the souvenirs. I shudder at the prices and now just try to get my son something affordable, not always the one he wants. So, I still believe you get the best bang for your buck at Disney, but how many more bucks do we need to keep throwing at them? Do I love going to Disney? Yes. It's some of the best times of my life but it's getting to the point where it's not a vacation or a journey or even a place where dreams come true. It's a place where all that may happen, if you're willing to go so deep into debt that your next vacation may be in a few years. The magic, the wonder of the place is still there inside me but I feel it's the execs and higher ups that are benefiting from all this. Not the everyday people who work there and certainly not the guests. They used to do things so orignal and awesome that they were a model for many places. Now, they're just like everyone else.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 I'm very much in the "there are too many characters/movie tie-ins lately in all the sections of the park" camp, and with you on the percentages being wildly different in the early days compared to now. However, you did miss at least one early movie tie-in; the Matterhorn was opened in the same year as the little-remembered "Third Man on the Mountain." Of course, the attraction holds up without the movie, but it WAS a movie tie-in originally. Also, TSI used to have life-sized wax figures of Davy Crockett and George Russell (Fess Parker and Buddy Ebsen) at the fort - not quite the movie tie-in of Pirates there now, but still, something Crockett-crazed kids of the 50's would want to see.
Originally Posted By jedited I will concede that I probably over estimated the movie tie ins at DL in the early years. But it is harder to do a movie tie in when you aren't making that many movies. But I also think that one of the key functions of the Disney parks is to work as a marketing vehicle. I believe that this is one of the MAIN reasons that Disney still has VERY popular characters (the fab five) that are also VERY old (80 yrs in Mickey and Minnie's case). I don't have a problem with a movie tie in as long as it is done well. I will admit that sometimes Disney does go overboard with tie ins. But by tieing an attraction to a movie or other property, you drive revenue to your other businesses (DVD sales, merchandising, etc) and Disney is after all a business that needs to make money.
Originally Posted By wc Hello Greg. I will be checking out the Pinball DVD. Since you are in San Francisco do you want to check out some Pinball and San Francisco history? Then go see Playland not at the Beach in El Cerrito California. You'll see and play over 40 vintage arcade games from San Francisco's own Playland at the BeachQ
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 Great thoughts above, particularly post 4. Hits on many things I've been saying for years. As to the cartooning of Disney parks, anyone who believes it always was this way either never visited WDW pre-late 1990s or was high on pixie dust when they did. The characters had their place at WDW in the 70s, 80s and into the 90s. Now, WDW IS THE CHARACTER PLACE. You can't escape them anywhere and Disney doesn't want you to because they feel, perhaps correctly, that the more your children see characters, the more that will translate into character merchandise being bought and character meals being arranged and photos etc ... It is, like much in American today, based on a LCD business model. BTW, I'm still waiting for someone with WDI connections (Leemac ... you around?) to tell me just what the backstory is for making one whole side of Main Street a World of Disney superstore with meaningless facades on the outside.
Originally Posted By ryanbalas One thing that stands out in most of the posts is that people feel they are at the mercy of the corporate greed that has infiltrated Disney. Victims. "Oh, poor me. I was forced to buy a sweatshirt for my little Tommy at $60.00!" Remember, you have the power - you always have. If an attraction, restaurant, etc. is introduced and the numbers don't support its existence - it's gone. Rocket Rods? Snow White Show? Everything from the original Tomorrowland? Most of the early stuff at DCA... Have you ever seen some of the stuff that shows up at the Discount Warehouse up on Orangethorpe? The Vacation Club thing (and its over-exposure) works and that is why its there. Timeshares sucker people in for an seemingly affordable lifetime price and hold you hostage with their ever increasing and rising fees. Oh. For the complaint on sheets only being changed once every four days. How often do you change your linen at home? How about a shower before bed? Disney has purchased land on Oahu for part of its Vacation Club experience - it will be a Disney Hawaiian vacation without the carnival atmosphere of Waikiki. Though, like the Polynesian Cultural Center run by the Latter Day Saints on the other side of the island, it will be a sanitized experience. Anyone been to New York New York in Las Vegas? I don't like it. Why? It's too clean. Where is the color and craziness the real city is known for? Knock a few knicks in the brickwork. Paint some fake entertaining graffiti. DVC will only grow. People don't want choices anymore. They want it done for them at a price they are willing to pay. We are on sensory overload from the whole world around us. Why is parking $11.00? Because people are willing to pay it. Period. If you know you are going to Disneyland or Disney World - go to the discount Disney Stores or go online and buy from the people who purchase items at these stores and resell them. Buy the items ahead, store and bring out upon arrival. Then, by god, walk down Main Street and don't go inside any of the shops. Lay down rules before you go and stick to them. Nobody pulls you into those shops and nobody forces you to buy anything. Yes, they make things a bit inconvenient but, that is because they have studied human behavior. "I'm not leaving the park to get a sandwich and juice we have in the room. Let's just pay $8.25 for fused mystery meat nuggets and fries (ketchup is your vegetable) and save time." I have brought food and used the lockers - it turned into a nice afternoon hidden in the picnic area. Being passholders, we have timed our time in the park to leave when hungry - Mimi's, Hoff's Hutt (banana cream pie - yummmm), In-N-Out, etc. On the branding and such, has anyone ever considered that Disney does such a great job of immersing you in the experience that you can forget where you are? Spend a Sunday morning in New Orleans Square and then leave. You weren't at Disney - you were at the world they created for you to experience. I find the easiest time to not spend a dime at Disney is during the Holidays. The experience of the park is so complete - who needs a t-shirt or light up boucing ball? Though, I love the eggnogg lattes and a cookie! I learned a valuable lesson from reading the oh so very long and aren't I a wonderful person book - "Mouse Trap" by Kevin Yee (please don't buy it, it will only encourage him). The oh so expensive sugar laden tables of desserts Fantasmic! experience on the balcony of the old Disney Gallery was thought up by a Castmember and fully supported by the zillions of people willing to pay 40 bucks to see a free show. You purchased the right to be pampered by nice looking castmembers in their finery and indulge on decadent sweets. More power to them! I love to occasionally blow some money to get the extra service and experience. If everyone would have said - excuse me - are you kidding? It would have faded in a heartbeat. What I truly love about Disney is its willingness to admit a mistake and correct it. If only we tell them - in large enough numbers by spending, speaking or walking through the turnstiles. Sorry so long. I don't make enough opportunities to log on and participate.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<One thing that stands out in most of the posts is that people feel they are at the mercy of the corporate greed that has infiltrated Disney. Victims.>> I don't think that's accurate at all. I think most people are angered by the greed, perhaps saddened by it ... but I don't feel I'm a victim. Of course, I don't pay for parking or dine at Chef Mickey's or buy my little princess a makeover at the Jon-Benet Boutique in the castle. Disney has always been about greed, even in Walt's time. But there was always a quality product you were paying for. Now, it's about giving as little as possible for as much as possible. That's what happens when you spend a decade plus of having consultants tell you how to break a product and remake it in their images. <<People don't want choices anymore.>> That's a load of bull. It's the Walmart excuse. People do want choice. Companies don't want to provide it anymore. Everyone has to be lean and mean to compete ... I'd love to know who we're supposed to be competing with.
Originally Posted By MPierce A very enjoyable article Greg, even though I disagree with you on Epcot being a mistake.
Originally Posted By Skellington88 "However, you did miss at least one early movie tie-in; the Matterhorn was opened in the same year as the little-remembered "Third Man on the Mountain." Of course, the attraction holds up without the movie, but it WAS a movie tie-in originally." This is nonsense. Matterhorn was never a movie tie-in. Show me an official disney document where this was said.
Originally Posted By Skellington88 "The Vacation Club thing (and its over-exposure) works and that is why its there. Timeshares sucker people in for an seemingly affordable lifetime price and hold you hostage with their ever increasing and rising fees." This is so true and I am astonished that Disney has found so many suckers to milk for DVC.
Originally Posted By leemac <<"However, you did miss at least one early movie tie-in; the Matterhorn was opened in the same year as the little-remembered "Third Man on the Mountain." Of course, the attraction holds up without the movie, but it WAS a movie tie-in originally.">> Not sure I would use the word "tie-in" - but Walt himself said he was inspired to build a replica of the mountain when he visited the set of the movie (which I believe opened the fall after the attraction). There is no character or story association with the movie.
Originally Posted By leemac <<BTW, I'm still waiting for someone with WDI connections (Leemac ... you around?) to tell me just what the backstory is for making one whole side of Main Street a World of Disney superstore with meaningless facades on the outside.>> Sorry Spirit - I'm not involved in Merchandise at all so can't help you on this one. The counter-argument will be that they are meeting consumer demand - listening to what merchandise guests want. I have no idea what the general masses want from WDW from a merch POV.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <This is nonsense. Matterhorn was never a movie tie-in. Show me an official disney document where this was said.> Right. I'm going to beam myself back to 1959 and produce one. It's very simple. Third Man on the Mountain, which was about scaling the Matterhorn, opened in 1959. So did the Matterhorn. You can still find official Disney lit that says things like "inspired by the 1959 film..." It's not going to officially call it a "tie-in."
Originally Posted By Skellington88 This is the internet where everything is available. Please show me a disney document that says "inspired by the 1959 film.." or anything of that nature. Matterhorn was built because Walt Disney went on a trip in europe, saw mountains, and came back and told imagineering he came up with idea for a bobsled ride through a snowy mountain at disneyland. It has nothing to do with the movie.
Originally Posted By brotherdave The real Matterhorn was featured prominantly in the movie as the focus of the story. It did inspire Walt to build his own Matterhorn, plus music from the movie was used to open the ride (see the "Disneyland Around the Seasons" episode of Wonderful World of Color for this tie-in), and I believe the music is still used today in the queue line. It might not have directly been a 'movie tie-in', but it sure inspired it. Also, the Swiss Family Treehouse, 20,000 Leagues Exhibit at DL and ride at MK, and Mike Fink Keelboats were definitely synergistic attractions.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Please show me a disney document that says "inspired by the 1959 film.." or anything of that nature.> I have a hard-back DL souvenir book circa early 70's that says it.
