Originally Posted By DAR With the release of The Dark Knight at midnight on Friday I thought I would present a look at Batman in his three main media forms. Comics, television and movies. Batman is probably my favorite comic book figure. He's human. He doesn't have superpowers but he has something we all have our brains. And he uses that to fullest extent. He has probably the most memorable and best Rogues gallery, though there are some that make you scratch your head, Filmfreak anyone? Didn't think so. And his supporting cast is also very good. Robin(Nightwing) Comissioner Gordon, Barbara Gordon(Oracle) and of course good old Alfred. Starting with the comics I'd say these are what you should read if you want to know some essential Batman stories: 1. The Long Halloween 2. Dark Victory 3. The Killing Joke 4. The Man Who Laughs 5. The Dark Knight Returns The first one traces the rise and fall of Harvey Dent/Two Face. The second is the sequel to TLH which introduces Robin into the mix. The Killing Joke is the essential Joker story. It gives him somewhat of an origin but still keeps the mystery of who he is. The Man Who Laughs sort of acts as a sequel to that story with Batman finding out just how brutal the Joker is. The Dark Knight Returns imagines a Batman in his 50's who becomes worse than any of the villians he's trying to protect Gotham from. Televison there have been several iterations of the Dark Knight though he hasn't always been "Dark". There was the 70's version that had him part of the Superfriends. And over the last few years there was also an animated series called The Batman that was highly stylized and focused on Batman's first few years. Of course, when you think of Batman on tv either the 1960's camp version with Adam West comes to mind or the 1990's animated series. Both I think do have their merits. The tv show is one of the funniest things you'll watch. And who doesn't get pumped up to see the POW ZAP WHAM on the screen. The animated series introudced a darker Batman featured great voice work, great design and stunning animation. Check out Batman Mask of the Phantasm a really good film from that group. Finally we get to the theatrical films of which there have been seven including The Dark Knight. They include a theatrical version of the Adam West series. Which again if you loved the tv series then you'll love this. Who can forget Batman fighting off the shark? B+ Then in 1989 Tim Burton decided to tackle a darker version of Batman. It starred Michael Keaton who was an odd choice at first but has proven to be the second best Batman despite being pushed into the background it seems. It featured Jack Nicholson do his best Jack Nicholson as the Joker. It's a good performance it's just not a great one imho. It had a somewhat decent story but always seemed like a better one was trying to get out. But the set design really was what really impressed. Gotham managed to look like it was old, new and futuristic at the same time. In 1989 I would have given this film an A, now it would merit about a B maybe a B+ Batman Returns was Burton's follow up and it brought back Michael Keaton. It featured Danny DeVito as the Penguin and Michelle Pfeiffer as Catwoman who was made for that outfit. Along with Christopher Walken as Max Schreck a character that did not work at all. This movie didn't feel like a Batman movie and it still doesn't. It feels more like a freak show. It's really a Batman movie in name only. I would rate this one a C-. The biggest villian to Batman is the Joker, Two Face, Ra's Al Guhl or the Riddler that would be Joel Schumacher who took over the series with Batman Forever. This time with Val Kilmer donnning the cape and cowl. Kilmer was adequate. Chris O'Donnell came on as Robin(ugh). Tommy Lee Jones was Two Face way over the top. And Jim Carrey almost perfect as the Riddler. And that's the reason why I like this movie quite a bit, Jim Carrey is and still was the sole reason to watch this movie. He's quite a force in the film. After Batman Begins(currently) this is the Batman film I would watch in a second. A- Batman and Robin-Oh where do we begin. It all went so wrong. Everyone involved has sort of apologized for it over the years. It just pains me to talk about it. It's not even good in a campy way. F Batman Begins-Batman came back in a big way. It was the origin story of Batman with the focus finally being on Batman. Christian Bale has proven to be the best Bruce Wayne/Batman. It had memorable and scary villians in Scarecrow and Ra's Al Guhl. I've maintained that for the last three I haven't seen a better film and I stick by that unless Friday changes things A+.
Originally Posted By ecdc Batman's long been my favorite, too DAR. I love the comics. Apple TV has the first 6 minutes of the Dark Knight up - you can find it in other formats if you search the interwebs for a while. It looks great - I'm freaking out for this movie!
Originally Posted By DAR I've almost(almost) tempered my expectations for this movie. But every critic that's seen says it's close to a masterpiece. And that Ledger is so good that he's a lock to get a Best Supporting Actor Nod.
Originally Posted By Liberty Belle Urrrrgh ... so unfair. This starts tomorrow here (Australia) and yet I'm sitting at the airport, bound for Hong Kong so won't get to see it for nearly another two weeks! I'm trying to con my sister into seeing it in Hong Kong with me. I've already booked my tickets for when I get back, but eh, I'd probably see it twice anyway!
Originally Posted By Liberty Belle >>And that's the reason why I like this movie quite a bit, Jim Carrey is and still was the sole reason to watch this movie<< I can hardly sit through this movie because of Jim Carrey! Different strokes I guess. I'm not a fan of his in general, and I find his whole routine quite painful.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh Although there were things about Batman Returns I didn't care for, overall I think it's better than Batman Forever. Val Kilmer made a fine Batman, but I was mystified by his wearing of glasses as Bruce Wayne. Didn't he realize that was Clark Kent's thing? And Tommy Lee Jones, who is usually so good, totally missed the subtleties of Harvey Dent/Two Face. It looks like The Dark Knight is going to a good job of setting up that story with Aaron Eckhart. Should be good. The 90's animated series did so many things right. The take on Mr Freeze was fantastic - much better than Arnold did in Batman and Robin. But a series can take the time to build characters that a movie can't.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I agree with the kudo's for Michael Keaton.I also didn't see it goingin, but he also was able to capture the psychological side of Batman which to me is the essence of the character.
Originally Posted By BlueDevilSF When the special edition DVDs of the four WB Batman movies came out in '05, I was pretty excited about it. I got the boxed set on the release date, and since I was laid up at home after surgery, I was looking forward to watching them while recuperating. After watching Burton's movies, I realized I just didn't care for them anymore. Sure, they had a great look about them, some interesting character moments and action sequences, but for me they just haven't held up over the test of time with repeat viewings. I think a lot of it has to do with Burton himself. I'm really so very tired of his movies and his style. His movies are almost interchangeable. But then, what do I know? After all, I am probably one of maybe 5 people in the world who liked the Catwoman movie. To put it in perspective, though, it IS a bad movie but it's such trashy fun. I never quite got all the criticism from the rabid fans over all the changes to the character. The "Batman Returns" version of Catwoman was a pretty radical departure itself. (And if I can interrupt to share a fanboy moment: A few years back, I had to make a call to American Airlines reservations, and the agent who answered my call was named Selina Kyle. I have my doubts, but she swore it was her real name.) As much as I liked "Batman Begins" and as much as I'm looking forward to "The Dark Knight," I think I prefer Batman more in a comic book than in most other mediums.
Originally Posted By BlueDevilSF I may have to break down and upgrade my video game system so I can get this and the Lego Indiana Jones game: <a href="http://www.legobatmangame.com" target="_blank">http://www.legobatmangame.com</a> They've got a glaring error in the character bio for the Riddler, though...
Originally Posted By DVC_dad To say that I am a Batman fan is an understatement. My first son is named Adam West. It was not an accident. Of course the association with with the Famiy Guy series was not forseen over a decade ago when Adam was born. But honestly that is just icing on the pop culture cake. I wanted to name my girl Betty Cane but my wife put her foot down. What? Unsure of the association? <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_Kane" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_Kane</a> And after that I decided while Adam West was an acceptable name, it was probably a good idea to quit while I was ahead. I have every available animated and live action movie in iTunes and I ofetn swap them around on the iPhone. I watch them secretly while in carpool lines at school and doctor appointment waiting rooms etc. Not a lot of people like the idea of a 40 year old fat dad enjoying animated movies such as Batman - Gothem Knight! Great post OP, I'm on board with you here big time! As for live action, I think the combination of Michael Keaton (Bruces Wayne/Batman) and Kim Bassinger (Vicki Vale) will never be beat. He pulled off the inner-tortured soul and outward dedicated crime buster perfectly, while Vicki Vale was the absolute damsel in distress... <a href="http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1259247616/ch0000213" target="_blank">http://www.imdb.com/media/rm12...h0000213</a> Oh baby! <a href="http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/warner_brothers/batman/_group_photos/kim_basinger10.jpg" target="_blank">http://us.movies1.yimg.com/mov...er10.jpg</a> I really did dig that 80's "Mall hair" ! Okay back on topic!
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Needless to say I have hundreds of Detective Comics Issues, including almost all of them since around 1980'ish to now. I would like to collect the older ones but I have kids to feed ja know? ;p
Originally Posted By BlueDevilSF >>Not a lot of people like the idea of a 40 year old fat dad enjoying animated movies such as Batman - Gothem Knight!<< My own husband being one of them...
Originally Posted By jasmine7 Great list of reading, Dar. I love The Long Halloween (you've got me inspired to search for my graphic novel now), and I enjoyed The Killing Joke. Have you guys seen the recent reprint of that one? Much of it is in monochrome (which was what was originally intended but didn't happen) with flashes of color at appropriate moments. It's really quite well done, from the pages I've seen. I'd add one more great Batman story: Knightfall. It's not perfect, but it is really one I enjoy. Bane has become a great character (especially with later stories that flesh out his background more and move him from villain to a little more heroic). I really love how he put Batman through the wringer by pushing him to his ultimate limits before attacking him fully. There's also a really good radio drama of Knightfall that was made in the 90s. They even brought Michael Gough back as Alfred (and their Joker is my second favorite version, after Mark Hamill).
Originally Posted By BlueDevilSF I loved Knightfall/KnightsEnd, but I think my favorite Batman crossover from the past 15 years or so has got to be No Man's Land. The final standoff between Sarah Essen and the Joker just really got to me. On a slightly-unrelated note, the DVD boxed set of the entire "Birds of Prey" miniseries comes out today...
Originally Posted By hightp I didn't care for the Batman movies. Michael Keaton seemed a poor choice to me because he didn't seem Batman like (no chin, lack of muscular definition) and I didn't care for the Christian Bale movie because the villian were kind of dull to me. I liked the animated Kevin Conroy who did the voice of Batman was great, as was Mark Hamil (Luke Skywalker) as the Joker. My favorite animated show, though, was Batman Beyond still with Kevin Conroy as the aged/retired Bruce Wayne and Will Friedel as the Batman in a high tech Batsuit. I miss that series.
Originally Posted By DAR A Death in the Family, The Killing Joke and No Man's Land dispeled in the comics the notion that the Joker is just prankster.
Originally Posted By jasmine7 ^^ As did Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker for the animated realm. That movie, while phenomenal, is very dark.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad I far far prefer the Dark Knight approach of Batman. I think IF there were a superhero in RL like Batman he would be very dark, walking a very fine line between serving justice and vengence and it would be ugly. Wow what does that say about me? I must have psychological issues. IMHO Batman is very timeless BECAUSE of the ability to make his story lines, animated features, and live action movies etc... DARK and sinister. You really can't pull that off very well with say Superman or Spidey. I suppose Hulk is on the edge but still that is a very non-human type hero to me so it doesn't count. I had heard a few years ago that there was a Capt American movie being made. Any truth to that? I bought the original Killing Joke many many years ago. I found it interesting that the new version has a lot of monochrome. I didn't know that but it's everywhere right now. The art, penciling is fantastic in that G-Novel! The color seems all green and purple but s'ok. Great OP DAR and very interesting.
