Originally Posted By TheMick I seem to remember reading on one of these posts that someone in the Disney upper echelon does not like the Fast Pass system and that there is a plan to get rid of Fast Passes some time in the not so distant future? Did I read right?! If so, who is this upper cruster and why in the WORLD would he/she want to get rid of Fast Passes?!! ... and, how soon is soon, is there anyone to write to to complain about this, am I rumor mongering with no relation to the truth (I SO hope)?
Originally Posted By Disneymom443 I belive it is just a rumor, and be carful Mick the fastpass subject can be a touchy one here on LP.
Originally Posted By Skylardad I think this is a rumor too. I think Disney has constantly reviewd the Fast Pass system and has made changes where necessary. For example, removing Fast Pass from locations that really don't need it - like the Haunted Mansion. I think Disney still thinks it's a good idea and feels there is a need for it. Ocassionally I have gotten a "surprise" Fast Pass for an additional attraction.
Originally Posted By ChiMike Mick, most of that previous discussion was geared towards what was occuring in Disneyland. I would love to see FP go the way of ride tickets and become a member of Yesterland, however, most discussions have circled around DL not WDW.
Originally Posted By TheMick I actually posted this question under Disneyland General as well. Thank you for letting me know that this is a touchy subject - obviously, I have missed previous discussions. I had a couple of people respond to my post on Disneyland General and I did learn some things I didn't know. As I stated there, I ask because I, for one, appreciate not spending 1 1/2 hours in line for a ride. My cousin, who has three kids and enjoys Disney quite a bit, but isn't a Disney nut like me and my family, mentioned that if they stop the fast pass policy he will no longer go to either Disneyland or Disney World as he refuses to spend money to stand in line for hours. I believe he and his family are the type of guests that Fast Pass was designed for. I wonder how many families like his might be alienated by eliminating the program? The logistics of what happens with the rest of the line was interesting to read, and eye opening. I must tell you that I have wondered why in the world anyone would stand in line for hours when a fast pass could be had. On the other hand, when I go whizzing through a queing area I do realize that I am missing part of the story telling. Then, on the other hand, my young children wouldn't let me enjoy it anyway because standing in line that long would be very hard for them and thus VERY hard for me and my husband! So, basically, no one would be appreciating all of the wonderful details.
Originally Posted By ChiMike The thing is that people more than willing to pay to go to Disneyland and Walt Disney World for decades when they had to stand in lines. It doesn't surprise me in the least that folks who have only recently become acquainted with the parks would feel that Fastpass is integral. That was the exact intention of the Disney company; that was why Fastpass originated as a free to use system. However, I view most of the threats such as your cousin's to be empty. History is on the other side of the arguement. The Submarine Voyage will reopen in Disneyland without Fastpass; does anyone expect only people who don't like Fastpass to get in line for it?! Fastpass is a ponzi scheme. If anything it isn't a net zero sum effect on efficiency, it more than likely slightly hinders efficiency due to most FP attractions receiving less effective grouping in leiu of a staffed FP merge point. Furthormore, FP is brutal on operations. It is an expensive loss-leader that doesn't add to park attendance, but it rather accelerates the depreciation of each attraction's value. Finally, little by little it is creating a caste system among the park guests. Those are pretty much general issues; personally, I also dislike FP because it puts those who do not want to plan out their days at a disadvantage. Those people who don't want to use the system now have to wait in standby lines that are artificially longer. Test Track and Disneyland's Splash & Space are three big examples of this disadvantage.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Finally, little by little it is creating a caste system among the park guests. < but unlike Universals it is not a caste system based on money.... I as we all have been down this path like FP in limited use. Some of the rides it has been taken off of it needed to be, but why should those willing to plan ahead - whether for PS or FP - have to give upthings for those who choose not to? The planning is a personal choice,no different than if I buy my Cubs tickets in February when they go on sale so that I can si where I want rather than take what I get if I wing it ? This thought process is certainly not new, so I fail to see why we should all only get xx amount of perks because some are unwilling to plan? Now I agree that with PS , a certain % of tables should be set aside for last minute visitors, locals etc ( maybe 25% ) - and I agree that FP on all rides cancels itself out after a while... ( and I do agree with the fact that it potentially - although I'd like to see the ride facts as each ride still only handles xx per hour -- adds to ride wear). So no different than reservations at a nice restaurant, tickets to the theatre or sporting event, museum shows ( like Tut here right now ) - planning ahead IMHO should net a benefit. In most things it helps companies plan better for knowing what they audience is going to be ....and while I admit FP does not do that - PS's do. So unpopular as the opinion may be, I like being able to get to the park and ride a normally long wait attraction while holding a FP for another and being able to get 2 rides in for not much more than 1 wait. And for very little thought process I can accomplish that...so I am appreciative. Comparing my waits in the 80's and early 90's and how many rides we can do when we are in the mood to do just rides some days...we can accomplish more today than then, easily. This is especially important to me when we brings guests to WDW who have never been, or don't plan to go 1-2 times ayear like we do. They don't want to stroll and takein the ambience -- they want rides and attractions and plenty of them, as well as good meals. With a little planning I can provide that for them. Now as for us when we go, I will admit to only limited use of FP because we know the parks andlayouts so well... we can plan out what we want to do, and relax along the way also... I use FP in the AM at AK for either Kali or now Everest while I do standby for KS. I sometimes pick up a FP for Dinosaur and then we go to Flame Tree and eat..then return ride. At the Studios we use for ToT / RnRC - and works out very well...do not need / use for annything else. At EPCOT - get FP for Soarin / TT combo and that is it. at MK -- for GTMRR & SM and sometimes for SM & Buzz ( depends) seems like only a little but I still enjoy the convenience
Originally Posted By danyoung >Thank you for letting me know that this is a touchy subject...< Please don't let any concern for some of the hot-headed natures around here deter you from posting a question. You have every right to ask, and hopefully most of us can keep a civil keyboard at our fingertips.
Originally Posted By TheMick I hate to look ignorant, but, since I am in this area, I guess it can't be helped. (o: What does PS stand for?
Originally Posted By brotherdave We found that FastPass worked quite well for us during our trip in June, mainly for the same attractions that vbdad mentioned at each park. I'd hate to see it totally eliminated, perhaps streamlined a little more to only a chosen few popular attractions, but not eliminated. Having been to many parks that offer 'legalized line cutting', Disney's is still the best and most fair system out there. I HATE the fact that Universal now upcharges for their's. Other parks, especially Six Flags parks, charge outragiously for the line cutting, already on top of outragious admission prices. At Six Flags Great Adventure in NJ, it costs $60 to get in, plus another $35 to take advantage of their Flash Pass system. Not to mention it costs $15 to park, $25 for priority parking! When it all adds up, it's a lot more expensive for a family to visit Six Flags and their mediocre rides and 'theming' (although some of their coasters are decent), than it is to visit a Disney park for the day! Even Universal seems a little cheaper, though not much more. Personally, I would love to see the elimination of the virtual queuing at most parks, with the exception of Disney. I know some HATE FastPass, but, for those, like myself and vbdad, that seem to know how to utilize the system to our benefits, we get to maximize our time in the parks with little wait times. Hopefully, Disney will not start 'upcharging' for this service someday.
Originally Posted By AuroraRose my DH and I actually bought up at universal (CA) for the "line cutting" ticket and let me tell you its a mixed bag. we've done it once, probably never again. for the most part it was helpful, it was the first time we were there and only had a limited amount of time and wanted to see as much as possible. I liked the fact that we weren't limited to what we could go on where as in WDW you have to wait until its your time, or its time to get another fast pass. we moved through the attractions quickly, and in leaving quickly, i guess we made space for others in the park. I say mixed bag, because cost is steep, and some of the italian catholic guilt came out as i was zipping by others in line.
Originally Posted By TheMick OK, I've never encountered priority seating, probably because as a Colorado girl my visits to WDW are sadly few and far between. Out of curiosity, how does it work?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo ^^^Basically, PS work like reservations. You book a time, but they do not reserve a table per say, what happens is you are then seated at the next available table.
Originally Posted By Labuda Actually, PS no longer exist. Now it's ADR - Advanced Dining Reservations. PS is the old=school name for it.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >> I know some HATE FastPass, but, for those, like myself and vbdad, that seem to know how to utilize the system to our benefits, we get to maximize our time in the parks with little wait times.<< But Dave, you do understand that your benefit comes from somebody else's loss, right? There is so much selfishness and rudeness (not you or vbdad) prevalent among the park's guests nowadays I can't help but think that the FP mentality only aggravates and agitates it. >>Hopefully, Disney will not start 'upcharging' for this service someday.<< Keep hoping. Maybe they will never directly charge for it, but it is only because Destination Disney had a bumpy road that we are not at the point where there are 3 or 4 different classes of FP users. It shouldn't surprise anyone that A DVC or AP guest would not have been one of the higher classes. It could be only a matter of time. I am rather hoping the FP continues to be a scaled down presence in the parks.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>but unlike Universals it is not a caste system based on money....<< yet, regardless, still a caste-like system. Look at the DL AAA ultimate fastpasses. Or how about the fact that some people know via either economic or lifestyle means that Disney does not enforce the one-hour window? And others think their FP is worthless if not used within that hour. People like you and me gain because we exploit others’ lack of knowledge or in some cases lack of money. There is enough of that in the real world; do we really need it Disney parks so some adults don’t have to stand in a 20 minute line for an attraction they have experienced 30 times already? Come on… >>but why should those willing to plan ahead - whether for PS or FP - have to give upthings for those who choose not to? The planning is a personal choice … This thought process is certainly not new, so I fail to see why we should all only get xx amount of perks because some are unwilling to plan?<< >I< see a flaw with the point that you feel it is unfair that those who like to plan be at a disadvantage over those who do not like to plan. The flaw being that the planning is some inherent right in visiting a park. That the perk had been around for ever. I could easily flip that around and say, “Why should I give up things because after 44 years of running a theme park Disney decided to change the rules so some people could plan? Especially those who simply don’t want to wait any longer for a ride they have had the luxury in life of riding 70 times already.†It goes both ways. Your way exploits others. I have yet to see in 7 years a solid defense to the contrary. My way keeps everybody equal. Not that I buy into Walt’s socialistic society, but when it come to waiting in line for a rolly-coaster, I’m all for Marx. >>So no different than reservations at a nice restaurant, tickets to the theatre or sporting event, museum shows ( like Tut here right now ) - planning ahead IMHO should net a benefit. In most things it helps companies plan better for knowing what they audience is going to be ....and while I admit FP does not do that - PS's do.<< No one is arguing with the concept of first come, first serve, especially for a reservation at a dining establishment. Same for showing up at a queue to get in line. I mean, that is the concept of a line to begin with! The two glaring concerns are that, A) FP does not equate to showing up first to stand in a line. With a FP you are not in a line. You are not in a virtual line. You are doing something else while others wait for the same privilege. You simply showing up and putting your ticket in a machine and then doing something else does not equate to first come, first serve. B) FP makes lines longer not only because of standby waits, but in slightly less operational efficiency.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> With a FP you are not in a line. You are not in a virtual line. << I have to disagree with this. I think FP is just another line, albeit virtual rather than physical. But it's a line that is given some level of priority over persons who are standing physically in line. NOTE -- I am not arguing for FP. And I am not a proponent for FP as it exists now. If there must be an FP system, I wish it would at least be limited to some max number of usages to any single guest per day. Something like 2.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>I have to disagree with this. I think FP is just another line, albeit virtual rather than physical. But it's a line that is given some level of priority over persons who are standing physically in line.<< Yes, I am aware that is the line of thinking that Disney expresses. I have no problem with people subscribing to that idea as well. I simply disagree with the idea that you're in a virtual ""line"" when holding a FP. For me, it's not much of a line if you can also be in a line for other things, you can choose when to enter the line at anytime until the park closes, and you can leave the park and come back later to be in the line. Nothing much to do with a line at all, virtual or not. Actually, I think vbdad's reference towards a reservation is probably better than a line. Once again though, how many reservtions can you show up 7 hours late for? >>If there must be an FP system, I wish it would at least be limited to some max number of usages to any single guest per day. Something like 2.<< I certainly agree with a limitation like that. I think the first thing they need to do is enforce the one-hour window. The system was put in place in 1999 with the one-hour window requirement at the heart of it's efficiency. Without that requirement the system loses any value it had to begin with, imo. I think another requirement should be that you can only FP a specific attraction once per day and there should be less FPs given out for each 10 minute window.
