Originally Posted By Rebekah This topic is for discussion of the 10/22/2003 news item <b><a href="http://www.jimhillmedia.com/legacy/index.htm?../articles/guest/fab.10212003.1.htm~contentFrame" target="_blank">JHM: Are SmartCards really the smart way to fix Disney's stateside theme parks?</a></b> The Fabulous Disney Babe makes a big splash with her return-to-JHM article. This time around, Michelle talks about the technology that some at WDI see as a possible fix for the company's theme parks.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt I think that this is an excellent idea. I actually see some advantages of this system for both the visitor and Disney with this system. The one thing that I'm not getting is would there be a limit to how many attractions a person would be able to visit in one day? If the SmartCards allow unlimited riding (by adding more money to it, of course) wouldn't that sort of defeat the purpose? The old ticket book system provided guests with two options: 11 or 15 ride ticket books with coupons in every category from A through E in each book. Individual ride tickets could be purchased at ticket booths in the park but the common complaint though, was that a lot of visitors had unused coupons left over when exited the park at the end of the day.
Originally Posted By arstogas Remember when WDI used to design ATTRACTIONS... and not new ways to process money? This and the new Cookie Monster Software that they've invented ("Disney Motion") are making their direction highly suspect... some Machiavellian hand at work.
Originally Posted By Jim in Pasadena CA 'SmartCard' is dumb. This is just another numbers game -- it's been polished up and gift wrapped, but it's still a numbers game. It has MBA written all over it. The MBA might be working at WDI, but it smells of having been spun through a 'business model.' Are we supposed to believe that unless guests start to 'pay' for a certain attraction with a 'SmartCard' that TDA and WDI and other Corporate suits simply 'don't know' if an attraction is popular or not? I just don't buy it. Disney knows what attractions are popular. They know what brings in money. They know that you have to build large-scale attractions every once in a while to maintain interest in the parks. This 'SmartCard' It's another chapter in the MBA-ing of the Disney Theme Park. It reminds me of the big 'sell job' they did on 'Fast Pass.' No more waiting in line!! Save your place in line. See more -- do more. And in reality, you have more crowded walkways, FastPasses that run out on busy days, and guests who still don't know that the program even exists. It really doesn't work. Underneath it all, it's a way for WDI to appease the beancounters -- and justify the 'need' to build new attractions -- and in essence justify their existence. With the SmartCard program in place it seems to suggest that they'll have new ammunition... "See? This attraction is profitable! Look at all the people who rode it today! See how necessary we are!" But it's a step in the wrong direction. As it starts to assume that some attractions are better [ie: more valuable] than others. 'Space Mountain' is 'better' than 'Storybookland' because 'Space Mountain' saw 1800 people an hour at $5.00 a pop, and 'Storybookland' only say 200 people an hour at a paltry $1.00. It's a popularity contest. Smaller scale rides that were never intended to be big draws become less desirable. The small details become fewer and fewer. On a side note, I'm also offended with the tone of the story -- the one that suggests that as an Annual Passholder, I'm supposedly on some "Disney welfare." Gimme a frickin' break. I've dropped bucks at Disneyland since buying an AP, and I'm sure most do. That sentiment seems to tie right in to the notion that, as AP holders, we're not using the park as it was intended, and should cut back our visits for the greater good. You know, so it's not so busy. I wonder if that same philosophy would hold up with some of these people who run Disney Fan Sites and do what they do based on the fact that APs are so affordable. I guess the 'MAKE A DONATION' buttons would have to get bigger and bigger in order to support the purchases of their SmartCards.
Originally Posted By SpaceScreamin Off topic: arstogas, what's the Cookie Monster Software? On topic: I think a small park in Arizona, 'Castles and Coasters' (or perhaps it's changed its name since I visited back in 1997), works on a similar debit card system. In addition, so does 'Knott's Camp Snoopy' inside the Mall of America (or at least it did when I was there back in 1998). However, I also think both of those parks had a Pay-one-Price admission as well. I would not be in favor of wiping out POP admissions (or Annual Passes), because I, myself, personally would not like to think my freedom inside the park to do what I want however many times I want was being limited. Heh, does this make me one of the AP holders with an 'entitlement' complex? And yes, I am a Premium AP holder. Perhaps allowing a choice of debit card or POP might be a possibility. I suppose most people would still choose the POP option, but at least there would be a cheaper alternative.
Originally Posted By Ursus J Bear The money being made will go into new attractions? Suuuuuurrrre it will...
Originally Posted By mmaus1962 While it's an intriguing idea, I think it's only creative bookkeeping and would change nothing--except that they'll have spent beaucoup bucks implementing the program. And who's to say that they would funnel the money into improving the Park instead of into the pockets of shareholders? (Not that there's anything wrong with that. )
Originally Posted By Jim in Pasadena CA Exactly Ursus J Bear. This whole concept just makes me absolutely crazy. With all the surveys and polls that Disney runs, can we assume that Disney Management knows the mix of their guests entering the Parks? I think we can. They know how many guests are buying Annual Passports, they know how many guests are buying full priced admission tickets, and they know how many guests are buying discounted So California tickets and everything else. But now, suddenly, after the program becomes 'too popular' those of us with Annual Passports are using them 'too much' -- ie: we're sort of responsible for the overcrowded feeling, stressing out the infrastructure, stealing all the FastPasses, and overall 'ruining' Disneyland. You want fewer Annual Passholders? Jack up the price. And continue to jack up the price until you hear the screams. Also, why do I, as a Disney Consumer, have to help Walt Disney Imagineering justify its existence by turning Disneyland into some half-baked Miss Attractions Contest. "You like Sleeping Beauty Castle? Wull, prove it" Prove this. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Originally Posted By arstogas >>>Off topic: arstogas, what's the Cookie Monster Software?<<< Disney's got this new "Disney Motion" stuff that you download in your computer, so they can play you little animations. Every so often they'll send you a "treat". Meanwhile, it's just another TRACKER, that lodges cookies in your system and invades your privacy. Once it's in your icon bar, just try deactivating it. You CAN'T, unless you completely uninstall it. Disney shouldn't be doing this kind of thing. >>>The money being made will go into new attractions? Suuuuuurrrre it will...<<< Just like the Lottery Money will help improve the schools...
Originally Posted By SFH There are some in management who don't think individual attractions make money, and so they don't want to invest in bold, expensive new attractions, or keep existing attractions open. If they could make more money by opening up a new attraction (without closing an old one, mind you), they'd find a way to finance that attraction. I wrote a column on this here on LaughingPlace.com. If things stay as they are now, expect to see fewer and fewer attractions open, and less and less innovation. It is time for a change. SFH
Originally Posted By Jim in Pasadena CA I guess my frustration is this. If in fact, Disneyland has 'too many' Annual Passholders, then focus on that, and fix the problem. Either make the APs more expensive, and therefore, making it too expensive for some, and weeding out the numbers that way, or put more people-eater attractions in the park and keep people occupied and get them out of the walkways with something to do. Fix the problem. But don't put it on me, your customer, and try to get me to fix it by turning the Attractions into some Beauty Contest. It's not my problem to fix.
Originally Posted By refurbmike Jim, I agree with most of what you said, except: "But it's a step in the wrong direction. As it starts to assume that some attractions are better [ie: more valuable] than others. 'Space Mountain' is 'better' than 'Storybookland' because 'Space Mountain' saw 1800 people an hour at $5.00 a pop, and 'Storybookland' only say 200 people an hour at a paltry $1.00. "It's a popularity contest. Smaller scale rides that were never intended to be big draws become less desirable. The small details become fewer and fewer." The smaller attractions do cost less, so they can afford to take in less revenue - as long as their net is still positive. However, this does make one wonder at what point will they start cutting attractions?
Originally Posted By Ursus J Bear And start pulling out the charming, atmospheric ones and replace them with more abrasive, half baked attractions because the MBA manual says it will generate money.
Originally Posted By Jim in Pasadena CA <the MBA manual says it will generate money.> Amen to that brother. When do these MBAs stop getting rewarded for their half-baked ideas that don't work?
Originally Posted By fastpassholder It looks like a lose/lose situation. The price of a satisfactory family vacation will go up and the quality of in-park guests will go down. What I mean is, a family of four will only be able to ride about 5 different rides on their visit. This is taking into account park admission, per ride costs, food and souvenirs. I don't think that a dialog like the following would make for a very good vacation. Son: "Daddy, can we ride Splash Mountain again" Father: "No son, we are all out of money." The other side is that the current admission price helps keep a certain degree of ruffians out. With a $15.00 park entrance fee, it may turn in to a pretty rough place on weekends. As a note, I remember the ticket books and everybody I knew went home with a ton of A Tickets and a few B and C Tickets.
Originally Posted By tangaroa Doesn't this just confirm Al's previous assertion that Disney is considering dismantling the AP program? I would agree that a change is needed but I don't know if a pay-per-ride system would work. It would probably end up being more complicated than necessary - and most likely costing people MORE money to visit the park. What they need to do is lower the one day ticket price and raise the prices of the Annual Passes.
Originally Posted By Jim in Pasadena CA <What they need to do is lower the one day ticket price and raise the prices of the Annual Passes.> I agree with this. What's preventing this from happening in your opinion....backlash?
Originally Posted By Candjp First off, I think SmartCards are a bad idea. They sound too complicated, not to mention expensive. The whole 'pay-as-you ride' idea will be a big turn-off to a lot of people. It seems like every article along these lines mentions the dreaded Annual Passholder who "clogs up the parks", goes everyday and doesn't spend any money. What is the basis for this? Do the authors take surveys, follow people around or what? I would like to see some actual facts to back up these statements. I am an AP who does not live in the Southern California area and who spends far more at the parks now than I did when I was just a day guest/tourist. We recently visited the parks with four family members (two adults, two children) who were going to the park for the first time in several years. Months in advance they were talking about how expensive everything is. They ate the majority of their meals off-property, carried lunch and snacks around in a backpack and spent very little on souvenirs. I feel safe in stating, that if/when they visit the parks again, they will not be thrilled at the prospect of having to pay as they ride.
Originally Posted By tangaroa >I agree with this. What's preventing >this from happening in your >opinion....backlash? The same thing that keeps them from lowering the price of admission to DCA. They don't want to admit that the park is less of a value than it was before, since that would just be admitting that maybe... just maybe... they haven't been doing such a great job.
