Originally Posted By pitapan16 I don't understand why Disney is allowing four seasons to build on there property by Osprey Ridge. They must be making alot of $$$ from this deal because it's de-valueing the Disney name at WDW. Why stop at Four Seasons, why not let the Hilton and Marriott to expand there chain to the seven seas lagoon? I don't know the business details but as a guest and life long Disney fan I hate the idea of having Four Seasons build a massive complex on WDW's diminishing property. WDW should only make room to build the BEST. If it's not the BEST quality don't build it. And if WDW thinks Four Seasons is the BEST, maybe DisneyWorld is'nt anymore? Poor choice. And right amongst a prime location off the premier golf courses.
Originally Posted By fkurucz FWIW, Four Seasons is a higher end brand than Hilton or Marriott. Why let them build? Maybe because: They will pay Disney huge royalties It allows Disney to add another Deluxe Resort without Disney having to spend a nickel. It will attract regular 4 Seasons customers to the resort.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj A couple of reasons not mentioned: 1) When Disney built the Eagle Pines golf courses they put too much golfing capacity on property. These golf courses are a money loser for WDW. Adding a Four Seasons Resort to that part of the property lets Disney off the hook for those recreational facilities and turns the responsibility over to Four Seasons. 2) Prince Al-Alweed (sp?) is the primary investor in Four Seasons and also has a significant stake in Euro Disney. It is speculated that as part of the most recent negotiations on Euro Disney debt, a promise was made to the Prince regarding the ability to build a resort at WDW. In return, he doesn't sell his stake in Euro Disney.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<When Disney built the Eagle Pines golf courses they put too much golfing capacity on property. These golf courses are a money loser for WDW.>> So the maintenance costs of these courses are higher than the amount they get back in greens fees? <<I don't understand why Disney is allowing four seasons to build on there property>> Non-Disney hotels have been on the property for decades, so I don't see why there should be any fuss.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>I don't understand why Disney is allowing four seasons to build on there property by Osprey Ridge.<< Simple. They get a nicer hotel on property and invest minimal $$ to create it, while getting a lot of dough from 4 Seasons in the process to operate it.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo There are a number of precidents here: WDW - Shades of Green, Swan and Dolphin, Partner hotels at DTD. DLP - Marriott Vacation Club on the Golf Course, partner hotels - Kyriad, Holiday Inn, Movenpick, My Travel, Radisson SAS, Pierre & Vacance. TDL - the partner hotels there. This is not new with the notable exception that it is going to be more prestigious than the Disney hotels, and to honest, I wholly welcomethat. The dDeluxes that have been slipping all these years will hopefully either pull their socks up or lower their prices.
Originally Posted By SuperDry Four Seasons provides an entirely different level of care and service to their guests than anything Disney chooses to provide these days, even at the Deluxe resorts. And there's a reason that Four Seasons, Ritz Carlton, and a couple of others are in business: there's a set of travelers that want this high level of care and are willing to pay for it. There's currently nothing for them on property at WDW. In fact, with the Ritz Carlton now in town (closer to Universal), I would imagine that it's drawing a lot of people that would stay on property at WDW if that level of accommodation was available. I don't see anything bad about Disney adding a Four Seasons. And I think that it's good that they are partnering with a company that is dedicated to servicing that market, rather than trying to do it themselves. Even if they were able to develop their own property that provided that level of service, it might be hard to convince the target market of this. Plus, there's no way they would be able to resist the temptation to cut costs and reduce the level of service over time, as has been done at the Deluxe resorts.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost <<When Disney built the Eagle Pines golf courses they put too much golfing capacity on property. These golf courses are a money loser for WDW.>> So the maintenance costs of these courses are higher than the amount they get back in greens fees?<<< Maybe if they lowered the greens fees a tad they might get more players on the courses. I would love to play golf at one of those courses but it is just to expensive for me to justify.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Four Seasons provides an entirely different level of care and service And there's a reason that Four Seasons, Ritz Carlton, and a couple of others are in business*** Would love to hear some examples of why they are so much better...(having never had the oportunity to experiece the "true" luxury...)?? What are the others, too? I'd love to know. As for my limited experience, I've had the chance to stay at the Brighton and New Otani hotels in Japan (both INCREDIBLE, in my view...), and as for any other "super luxury" experience, I'd guess the Pacific Terrace hotel in San Diego was pretty incredible (THAT one, I paid for myself...off season rates lol...the Japan ones were on the companies dime)... I'm very curious to hear thoughts on what makes these "super rich" hotels so much better.
Originally Posted By juicer Those "super rich" hotels have a whole different vibe to them - I have stayed at the Beverly Hills Hotel, Mondrion and Pebble Beach - The service is relaxed, friendly and very professional - Like you know they will do anything with grace to make you happy - When I lived in San Francisco a while back - I would sometimes go to one of those great hotels and just have a drink and maybe an appetizer too - It made me feel pampered - even if it was just for a hour or so -
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>Would love to hear some examples of why they are so much better...(having never had the oportunity to experiece the "true" luxury...)?? << Someone needs to go out and smell the clean hotel sheets more often.. The ironic part is that Disney basically wrote the rules of good service that are now pretty standard at most hotels 4 stars or higher. As for offering beyond the ordinary service, as long as there is no Peninsula or Ritz on property, WDW won't be offering "top of the line" excellence.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< The service is relaxed, friendly and very professional - Like you know they will do anything with grace to make you happy - >>> That's a good way to put it. Here are some examples: - Want a special kind of pillow? They likely have it and will gladly change out the ones on your bed. And, the next time you stay at the same property, your room will already be made up to your liking without you having to ask. - Instead of pre-stocking the minibar with 1 or 2 quantity of 20 different items, they'll ask you what you want and put lots of just that in it. - Need a private phone line that doesn't go through the hotel's switchboard? Just ask and one will be wired up to your room in a few minutes. - Need to stay under an assumed name? They're set up to handle it. - Are you someone that might be followed around by people with cameras? You can be assured that hotel security is on the lookout for this. - Do you want to sit out by the pool and have someone bring frozen washcloths (and perhaps popsicles for the kids) around at regular intervals? How about poolside drink service where they keep your glass full and you don't have to wait half an hour to get your order? - They have 24-hour room service and twice-daily housekeeping (and where they actually vacuum the carpet at least once a day ). - They usually have overnight laundry and dry cleaning (most regular hotels do this during business hours only, assuming they provide it at all). Or, you're able to get a shirt or suit pressed in one hour. - A check-in process where when you arrive at the hotel and the bellman relieves you of your luggage and puts it on the cart, he asks your name (if he doesn't already know it) and instead of just writing it down on the luggage ticket, takes you directly to your room and you complete the check-in process there, completely bypassing the front desk. These are just examples. Some of them may seem far-fetched, but they're important to the people for which they are important (profound, eh?). Note that most of what I mentioned doesn't involve higher quality facilities (although they have that as well), but a commitment to providing a higher level of service, and a willingness to have the facilities and most importantly provide the staff that can deliver these services. You can't effectively provide this level of service with $8.50/hour workers, or if you're willing to outsource guest-contact positions. And there's no way you can maintain this level of service if you're constantly under the gun to cut costs to meet an unrealistic quarterly earnings growth goal (possibly because your property has to subsidize money-pit properties elsewhere in the company), and are willing to reduce staffing in order to do so. This isn't the type of property for me, even though I do like things like 24-hour room service and overnight laundry. Overall, I find properties like this to be too formal for my liking, but a) I definitely recognize the higher level of service they provide, and b) I realize that it's nothing that WDW itself would ever be able to pull off. But these types of hotels exist for a reason: there is a group of people out there that need or want this level of service, and are willing and able to pay for it. I think it's wise for Disney to partner with a company where providing this level of service is all they do. And I think it will be a great addition to the property, just as the All Stars is and the western expansion will be: WDW is big enough to have a property to fit each end of the spectrum and everywhere in between.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj << The ironic part is that Disney basically wrote the rules of good service that are now pretty standard at most hotels 4 stars or higher. >> What on earth do you base this statement on? Disney only got into the hotel business when they built WDW, and for the first decade there the service was notoriously abysmal. Disney's service has improved substantially as the Orlando hotel market has grown and brought in more competition. Back when Disney hotels were the only game in town for a non-motel experience, there was no comparison to make. I have stayed at WDW hotels since the 1970s. I've always found them to be a great deal of fun, and certainly worth the added convenience of staying close to the magic. However, never once would I have ever considered them setting some lodging industry standard for excellence. I remember it being the Disney "standard" back in the 70s and 80s to make people wait well into the evening for their rooms to be ready to check in because housekeeping couldn't get rooms turned around fast enough. Even the Disney-friendly Birnbaum guidebooks used to advise guests that room may not be ready by the 3 PM advertised check-in time. There's a ton of idiosyncracies at the Disney hotels that make them different from the industry norm. I honestly don't know how people can pine for the "good 'ol days" when they really weren't all that great in comparison to what is offered today.
Originally Posted By Mr X Actually, mrich, I took that statement to mean that Disney THEME PARKS "set the standard" for customer service...and that goes back 50 years. And, if that's how it was meant, I agree.
Originally Posted By Mr X - Want a special kind of pillow? They likely have it and will gladly change out the ones on your bed. And, the next time you stay at the same property, your room will already be made up to your liking without you having to ask. * I like those scrunchy pillows shaped like frogs. Do they have those? - Instead of pre-stocking the minibar with 1 or 2 quantity of 20 different items, they'll ask you what you want and put lots of just that in it. How about hash brownies? Or is that only "4-seasons Amsterdam"? What happens if you tell them you like "everything"? - Need a private phone line that doesn't go through the hotel's switchboard? Just ask and one will be wired up to your room in a few minutes. What, and miss the chance to hit on the hotel operator? - Need to stay under an assumed name? They're set up to handle it. Okay, SuperDry, who the heck did YOU piss off? - Are you someone that might be followed around by people with cameras? You can be assured that hotel security is on the lookout for this. I'm starting to suspect our mild-mannered SuperDry is Salmon Rushdie or something! - Do you want to sit out by the pool and have someone bring frozen washcloths (and perhaps popsicles for the kids) around at regular intervals? How about poolside drink service where they keep your glass full and you don't have to wait half an hour to get your order? What *I* want is lotion slathered all over my...er, never mind. They have hotels that cater to THAT stuff too. - They have 24-hour room service and twice-daily housekeeping (and where they actually vacuum the carpet at least once a day ). I have enough trouble keeping the maid out the FIRST time she knocks and enters at 7 o'clock in the morning when I'm just getting out of bed! - They usually have overnight laundry and dry cleaning (most regular hotels do this during business hours only, assuming they provide it at all). Or, you're able to get a shirt or suit pressed in one hour. Suiting up for the trial, SD? I can see why you're trying to avoid cameras and such! - A check-in process where when you arrive at the hotel and the bellman relieves you of your luggage and puts it on the cart, he asks your name (if he doesn't already know it) and instead of just writing it down on the luggage ticket, takes you directly to your room and you complete the check-in process there, completely bypassing the front desk. Okay, this need for secrecy and privacy is just a little too obvious at this point, SD. Seriously, SuperDry, I think you just need to admit it. SuperDry IS, in fact, Michael Richards, and is avoiding the public as much as possible following that unfortunate incident. These are just examples. Some of them may seem far-fetched, but they're important to the people for which they are important (profound, eh?). Far fetched? No. Not really. We all understand, don't we folks?
Originally Posted By disneydad109 I LOVE having them polish my shoes overnight.Just leave then in the hall and they are back when you wake up. Thats a five hotel !
Originally Posted By pitapan16 Interesting comments people. I still don't like the idea of non-Disney on property. I know you guys pointed out all the current non-Disney Hotels on property (aka Swan/Dolphin and the one next to Caribbean Beach) but I don't like those hotels being there either. If this Four Seasons is complete excellence in architextural design amongst its landscape, it won't be AS bad but I still don't like it. I guess it really is about the $$$. Just another lesson to me. I just question whether Disney World becomes less "Disney" when WDW allows another outsider in, and another and another?
Originally Posted By pitapan16 Apparently Disney does'nt feel like that and they see the Four Seasons as another way to consume the Orlando tourists $$$.
Originally Posted By Mr X They've been allowing outiders in since the beginning. And more and more since the mid-90's (not only hotels...outside vendors, transportation, utilities, etc., etc...). I do believe that hotel plaza blvd with it's many outside hotels was around since the beginning, no? I think it just wasn't noticable because people had no idea how vast the Disney property really was.
