Originally Posted By Moon Waffle OK, I don't like the attractions (or lack thereof) that came out of TL 98, but I've got to admit, I liked the concept of the whole retro-future and the color scheme, even the brown Space Mountain. I thought the mural was amazing; way better than the flying Space Mountains or whatever it is supposed to be now. I wish they would have invested in some decent rides for TL 98 because I think this whole concept and theme was great. Certainly more cohesive than the mix-match of cartoon-based rides and trying-hard-to-be-cool "rockin" attractions they seem to be focused on now. Thoughts?
Originally Posted By oc_dean Following the 1870s view of the future portrayed in Discoveryland in Disneyland Paris ... it seemed fitting they borrowed from some of those ideas .... using the bronze/copper tones as seen in late 1800s futurism. Problem was .... It was mostly usages of the color palette .. without brand new fabrication pieces to be tacked on as new "walls" to the older structures. If you take a look at WDW's Tomorrowland renovation in 1994 .. they did exactly that. The Tomorrowland Promenade buildings look great! It doesn't take much to realize not much had been done to the buildings since the 1967 renovation. Look at Redd Rocket's Pizza Port. It's all the same facade when it was Mission To Mars. Just a slightly different color scheme .. and they did a slight change to the front windows. All of the "Space Mountain" complex is exactly as it was ... since 1977. The only significant structural changes came to the carousel theater - and what went inside is nothing exactly to scream about. Rocket Rods was doomed to failure right from the get-go. Closing within a total functioning time period of a year and a half stretched to Sept 2000. Oh .. and Cosmic Waves. An interactive water fountain meant for people to work it like a maze .. till you reached the granite ball in the center and try averting getting hit by the water jets ... turned Tomorrowland into a new version of the 1956: BATHROOM of Tomorrow! I'll be glad when the ball is finally gone. There's absolutely no "rhyme or reason" for it at all, at this point. Its just a matter of time when that will be stricken from the face of Tomorrowland. And finally Astro Orbitor and the Observatron. No doubt the Astro Orbitor is one pretty "xerox copy" of the Orbitron from Discoveryland: DLP. But because the rest of the land was never done right .... and now done in shades of blue and silver ... it's time will come .. when it comes down. And replaces the Orbitron which was designed to be a stunning light show at night. Never lived up to it. All in all ..... as "warm" as the color pallette may have been ... It was all hap-hazardly tacked on (PAINTED!) to an old 1967 infrastucture which is showing it's age .. in places. The graceful archways of the Peoplemover still are very graceful .. and I can only pray a new type of system will glide above us one day. The entrance facade now a shade of beiche ... with that pointed "proscenium" framing as a "grand entrance" into the land .. still gleams to a more "hopeful" land of the future. In my book .. it has garnered "futuristic" classic looks. And while we all like updates, updates. What exactly is an "update" anymore? I suppose some artist can come up with a new design that would take our breath away. But ... as we are in a new century .... I sure would love to see the word "retro" stricken from our vocabulary. I want so much to see new visionaries with great new ideas!
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I'm not familiar with Disneyland's TL98, but I really liked the retro-Tomorrowland that WDW opened in 95. The only new attraction it brought was Alien Encounter, but I thought the style and color of the retro theme brought life and a sense of fun to Tomorrowland that had been totally missing before. You like the gleaming white monoliths of the Epcot's Future World? Fine. You can have them. I prefer a little color in my future.
Originally Posted By Mr X I would hardly call Epcot's Future World colorless. There were, and still are, plenty of beautiful gardens during the day, and beautiful, futuristic colors played over the place at night. In fact, I believe Epcot WAS (repeat, WAS) the ultimate Tomorrowland. Unfortunately, for that to continue, it would have to be entirely updated at least every 5 years...not realistic, I guess. Even worse have been the horrible tomorrowlands that have been nothing but. Sorry, but I really was sickened by the newer Anaheim efforts. It was about as tomorrow as last weeks garbage. Same with Florida, and Tokyo. Nothing special whatsoever. Paris was just a retro "we have no vision" thing. Not impressed. If they called it "Jules Verne land" (like they pretty much DID in DisneySea) that would have been fine. And PLEASE don't get me started on the worst, worst, worst, most PATHETIC tomorrowland ever...HONG KONG Tom.....erCARTOON LAND. What a farce. What are they thinking? A freakin cartoon version of some stupid space reststop or something? That is just horrible. And cheap. Oh, did I mention cheap? Yeah...cheap. And crappy. Horrible concept. The only vision of Tomorrowland that EVER inspired me, and even still does to this day, was the ultra "on the move" wonderful Tomorrowland of Disneyland, circa 1960-70's (I think?). THAT was a place that was filled with "the promise of tomorrow". Hong Kong really made me want to puke. How can you create the world of tomorrow, today...on a shoestring? With a cartoony, stupid concept to boot!? But anyway, to get back to RT...I just don't buy into the whole "retro-tomorrow" theme. It doesn't really work for me at all.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I would hardly call Epcot's Future World colorless.>> I wouldn't either, TODAY. I think Disney recognized that the original Epcot Future World did seem somewhat lifeless and have done a lot to change that. Now Innoventions Plaza has color and movement and has brought life to Future World. Don’t get me wrong... I love Epcot; it is my favorite WDW park. I just think the Original Future World seemed rather bland and sterile.
Originally Posted By Mr X Interesting point, and I admit I'm going FAR back in my memory to my first trip (around 1983)... I remember that it WAS somewhat "sterile"...although I might substitute "awe inspiring", at least on first glance of Spaceship Earth and what lay beyond... I don't ever remember thinking it was bland, in any way shape or form though. I guess that had to do with what I discovered INSIDE all those buildings, which just had my jaw dropped the whole day. Back in 1983...Epcot WAS the future. Funny thing, just yesterday I got together with another LPer who mentioned the fact that Tokyo "is the future"...and earlier I was standing under the Roppongi Hills Mori Tower, which is just about the most amazing, futuristic building you could ever imagine...and it was pretty much "sterile", in a sense. The building was colored in an interesting way. Lots of stark white and grey lighting, with a strip of I think green and red (maybe blue and red) on the side...anyway, AWSOME, futuristic architecture to say the least...but the colors on the side seemed like a sort of side note (like "hey, this is the future...but we have COLOR!). When you wrote what you wrote today, I thought of that.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I remember that it WAS somewhat "sterile"...although I might substitute "awe inspiring", at least on first glance of Spaceship Earth and what lay beyond...>> I think we are really coming from about the same place. The first time I visited Epcot those huge white windowless buildings really were rather awe-inspiring. And of course I loved what was inside them. I think that Epcot’s architecture, like much 70's and 80's architecture, seemed very 'futuristic' at the time but like the Leisure Suit became dated rather quickly. I sill find the architecture of Future World very interesting, even if it does shout out '80's'. I also think Disney has done much since then to add color and life to Future World which to me was a big improvement. Somehow the original Future World reminded me of the sterile, gleaming white interiors of ‘2001, a Space Odyssey'. Futuristic, but oddly unsettling at the same time.
Originally Posted By Mr X >>>Somehow the original Future World reminded me of the sterile, gleaming white interiors of ‘2001, a Space Odyssey'. Futuristic, but oddly unsettling at the same time.<<< YES! But, for some reason, I really LIKED that. Just my 2 cents anyway. A 2001 space odessey theme for me, was totally AWSOME back then (still is, really). Maybe sterile. Maybe creepy. But that's what I LOVED about "THE FUTURE". Guess I'm just a movie-centric guy.
Originally Posted By nemopoppins Yes, Mr. X. Plain and white still brings up a futuristic image. And it's retro too, being the futuristic image presented in 2001:..., as well as many other features of that time. Why should they abandon one period's impression of the future for another?
Originally Posted By dresswhites i always feel one of the biggest wastes of tomorrowland 98 and even more so today is the observitron. in the conceptual drawings the observitron was supposed to do a little light show at night. sure it wouldn't be something to write home about, but it would be something interesting in the land. people including myself really enjoy the light/projection show at small world during christmas. i think people would enjoy seeing a little light show in tomorrowland every 15 minutes or so. i am always surprised they didn't and still don't make the observitron perform with lights and fog at night. i think that would be pretty cool. i can't imagine it would be all that expesive do either.
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> I am always surprised they didn't and still don't make the observitron perform with lights and fog at night. i think that would be pretty cool. << As I remember it, it wasn't 'cool' enough. Back in the day, when the observatron started its cycle, a loud trumpet fanfare would sound, the thing would start to whirl around, lights would blink, arms would rise and fall ... and then - nothing. It was over. People were left scratching their head and wondering what that was all about. A lot of 'too-doo' with absolutely no point. As to the color scheme, I liked it the first year, but it didn't wear well. Instead of simply 'brown', it was brown with metallic streaks of silver and patina green, but it wasn't maintained and over time just faded into a dull stain. The TL promenade was given pavers and that looked nice. The 'chaser' neon lights over at the monorail also looked really cool, but for some reason (probably maintenance) it didn't last. The hokiest gimmick was the edible foliage - all of the landscaping was (supposedly) made up of edible plant materials. Why? I think it has something to do with a cabin in montana - don't ask. Cosmic waves was a huge mistake right from the get-go. Wet and shrieking kids and the overpowering stench of the chlorine fumes permeated the entire area. Astro-obitor was an even bigger mistake - this whirly-gig is a rude intrusion into the atmosphere of the hub and is a cork for the TL promenade. I'm not much for 'innoventions' either. Many people will say "anything is better than nothing" but I'm not so sure. In sum, TL98 will long be remembered as one of DLs greatest failures and one of many examples of the lasting damage that pressler heaped on the park. I wonder if he feels any embarrassment at all?
Originally Posted By nemopoppins After playing with the Cosmic Waves, my kids waited in line for Rocket Rods. After about a half an hour, they reached the building. The CM at the door said they were too wet to go in. They were allowed to resume their wait from that point after they dried off, but I wish we could have known ahead of time that being wet was a drawback. I wonder if they have that problem at DCA with the water attractions.
Originally Posted By Zwitek <<< In sum, TL98 will long be remembered as one of DLs greatest failures and one of many examples of the lasting damage that pressler heaped on the park. I wonder if he feels any embarrassment at all? <<< Speaking for myself only, this was THE greatest failure in my lifetime for Disneyland. Even more than Light Magic, even more than California Adventure. One of the coolest, most imagination tickling areas of the park, gutted, cheapened, BLOWN. Almost ten years later, and it still has yet to recover. To be fair, futurism is no longer the flavor of the time, but it should be. Perhaps we as a people need strong optimism to be inspired by the hope of a better tomorrow. I feel that we can be inspired as a people by an optimism of a better tomorrow. Disney used to show us the way. They still can, if only they'd lead the way now with a new, and fresh vision.
Originally Posted By nemopoppins It's a Small World shoud become part of Tomorrowland (retheme that side of the lagoon to tomorrow) to represent globalization. I love the idea a few of you posted above that an optimistic view of the future is necessary and that Disneyland should pave the way. With imagination, a green and peaceful world (and on the move) could be presented. A theme like that would represent the changes in our times to keep Tomorrowland looking to the future. Contrary to the image presented in the current backwards looking tomorrowland and innoventions, the future isn't merely meaningless new computer applications.
Originally Posted By dresswhites to be fair, tomorrowland was slowly dying before the redo. first America Sings left(not a bad thing since it never really belonged in the land in the first place -then the skyway left -mission to mars closed and that building was empty for a while -captain eo, circle vision, were on their last legs before they closed the land had been in decline for about 10 years prior to the redo.
Originally Posted By 8 ilovemickey 8 I don't know...I don't feel like Tomorrowland is that bad. There are some decent rides now...Buzz and Star Tours...and of course Space. And Nemo if that is considered apart of Tomorrowland? A few minor changes and upgrades could make a huge difference. There is a lot of space that isn't maximized and huge basically empty buildings. And I always thought the Space entry was weirdly set up. But I guess it's true that out of all the lands it is the weakest conceptually. Hmm now i'm really trying to think of something cool they could add. Any ideas? Haha.
Originally Posted By Zwitek Things that could make Tomorrowland tomorrow again- Innoventions is about ten years behind.... at least. It's time to take Innoventions away from stale corporate sponsorship and turn it over to some futurists like Bradbury, Giger (G rated of course) or some labs across the country that are in the theoretical stage rather than a product at market stage. Show us the future, rather than today, or yesterday. A new style of People Mover, faster, smoother, and a new vision showing how a metropolis could move people between skyscrapers above ground. Rip up the I5-topia. I mean, the Autopia. Not even kids like simulating rush hour traffic. Make it so the cars hover off the ground somehow (use magic if needed) and show how a hybrid autopia/dumbo type of ride could project the traffic of the future. Either update or remove Star Tours. It's time for a new film. Or change it into something tomorrow themed, sans Lucas. Turn it into a new mission to Mars, ala a space shuttle ride. Honey I shrunk the audience could go as well. Turn it into some form of Alien Wold in 3d experience. Get some cast members wearing futuristic flight attendant clothing, wandering about the land, adding to the ambiance. Perhaps some space beings, or astronauts. These are just a few changes I'd add.
