Originally Posted By sjhym333 I read with interest this week Kevin Yee's article on The Rizo Factor over on Miceage this week? Here is the link if you missed it: <a href="http://miceage.micechat.com/kevinyee/ky021412a.htm" target="_blank">http://miceage.micechat.com/ke...412a.htm</a> As I reread the article today I was thinking about how the decline (at least in my eyes) at WDW has changed our theme park going decisions and has turned our family from Disney geeks to a group of people who have been letting our AP's expire. As a family we used to visit the parks very regularly. We are local and have had AP's for as long as I can remember. This year has been different for us. The family's general feeling at this point is not much new going on, show quality is down, the things that made Disney famous are no longer priorities for the company and the idea of going to Disney on a weekend day tends to get a tepid reply from everyone. Little by little we are letting out AP's expire. I understand that many people, including many here, still love the parks. There is a lot to love. But for me, I see the homogenization of the parks, the lack of caring of the little details, the rewriting of the OG that allow major show scene's not working and still running the attraction very disheartening. I believe that more and more people are noticing these things. When you have many DVC owners who come to the parks regularly, or people who plan their yearly vacation to Disney, people are bound to see the creeping in of less than Disney-like running of the parks. At what point, if any, will or does the running of the parks under its current mgmt style affect how people's decision to visit or not visit wdw? Will there come a time when someone at the Disney Company realize that they have strayed far from the values Walt instilled in his team? A former VP of WDW recently said to me that WDW is not the Disney that Walt envisioned or wanted. He told me he doesn't recognize the parks that he was instrumental in building and running. He said it was very sad. I know that this may seem like rambling, but it has made me curious. I look at the upcoming NextGen stuff as well as the new FP for premium hotel guests and I just shrug my shoulders. I think...who cares...wdw no longer cares about the average guest like me who just wants to go out and enjoy the park for the day. Just some randoms thoughts. Yours?
Originally Posted By LadyandtheTramp About the only thing sadder than what you said is the fact that it mirrors my thinking so closely I wonder how you got into my mind. Having had APs at either DL or WDW for over 17 years now (and some years at both), we too are considering whether or not to let the AP expire and not renew. Even worse, this year we bought APs to Uni and enjoy going there on occassion. And it isn't that we're tired of Disney (we still go to DL as often as we can), but it's what's going on (or not) at WDW. If and when they implement the new NexGen Fastpass system for deluxe guests, I fear that might be the final straw that says stop Disney, let's go to Universal, or Sea World, or Busch Gardens. No more spending weekend days at the World (as locals, we generally don't stay into the evening).
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn Would you get an annual pass to the Grand Canyon, Yosemite, or Yellowstone if you lived near?
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <Would you get an annual pass to the Grand Canyon, Yosemite, or Yellowstone if you lived near?> What is that meant to imply?
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: My sisters and I are right there with you, sjhym333, duckling. Just today I was asking Orwen and Orgoch if they'd like to fly all the way from Morva to Walt Disney World this weekend-- ORGOCH: --an' I told her I just as soon stay home an pick my nose. ORWEN: Eeeewwww! Not again, you nasty old biddy! If that's your plan I'd rather risk the hazards of a flight on my broomstick to Walt Disney World--even if it meant picking up another splinter--instead of watch any more of your disgusting behavior!! ORGOCH: Anything ta git ya outta the house, sister! The last thing I wanna' do is hang out with losers like yerself an' Orddu! ORDDU: But the bigger point is that we all agree that Walt Disney World is losing the appeal it once had--due to all the budget cut backs, unrepaired attractions, rising food and merchandise costs, certain cast members with bad attitudes-- ORGOCH: --Well, heck! Why'd we ever like ta go there ta begin with?! ORWEN: Because it used to be a lot better! I think I'd have more fun if I just stayed home and ate a box of Krispy Kreme donuts! ORGOCH: Well, if'n yer gonna' be doin' THAT, then I'd just as soon try goin' ta that new Prego Land thing that just opened up! ORDDU: Prego Land? Hmmmmm....
Originally Posted By tonyanton For me, being a DVC member, what it has meant is cutting back on trips to WDW...I have only been once in the past three years when I used to go 1-2 times a year (I live in NY). Instead, I have gone to DL and taken several Disney Cruises, both of which do a much better job of maintenance and "show" than WDW these days. It is sad, as I grew up in the '70s and '80s going to WDW and know what it once was and can still be.
Originally Posted By tashajilek Its reall weird how WDW doesnt seem to cater to locals like DL does. I have hearf a lot of people say there are no locals going to WDW which is funny because i met a lot on my visit during Xmas. My husband and i have only been to WDW once and even though we liked it we are in no rush to return like we always do to DL. We did notice poor food quality, prices higher than DL merchandise prices and some really rude cast members which shocked us. We will probably be back in a few years because we really liked Epcot, Dak and just the WDW resorts in general but, the magic just isnt the same as DL.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 It's a damn good question, howeer I do not know where the straw/camel situation happens. As a 20 year DVC member, I think having options like DCL or Vero also help but I can tell you my family still loves WDW. Yes we are aware of the maintenenace creep, you'd have to be blind not to see it. However we still get excited for new things as well. Looking forward to a new Fantasyland, even though it is no comparison to Harry Potter ... -- I think there also is more tolerance for some of the 'bad show' issues because the experiences in every other part of the world have become worse as well- usually muchmore magnified than this. When it costs $80-$100 to go to a ballgame in a city like Chicago / Boston /New York ( in my case to see an inferior product on the field) - and another $25 to have a beer/ hot dog and peanuts- to sit with a bunch of drunks...or even your favorite restaurans have cut back- whether it's not water/bread on the table, or portion sizes or hours, or what it costs to attend formerly cheap alternatives ( zoos/museums etc.) now today - for places usually poorly maintained because they are run on donations... I think the wtering down of all other everyday experiences increases the tolerance for show quality at WDW. I am not saying it should, there should be no pass for things like SPlash being a mess..but I think real world creep into it builds more tolerance. I do not think the mgmt team at WDW is smart enough to realize that, I think they get lucky because of it though. When the day comes ( I hope never) that we are no longer thrilled by WDW we will stop going. It's that simple- as we've vut other experiences out of our life because they were no longer enjoyable. For me my DVC investment was paid for many many years ago- having received park passes for 8 years ( 11 trips) for a family of four as a perk. I would like to see improvement in WDW- and since DCL is still run so well as is DL, I still have hope. Not too long ago DL was a total mess,far worse than WDW..so it CAN change. Will it ? Don't know
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper Honestly, it'll happen when things like Splash Mountain becomes the norm. Maintenance isn't good across the property, but it's not bad enough for me to completely stop going. Seeing where NextGen ends up is another factor. I can see a lot of factors from XPass potentially ruining my time at the parks, but there's so much up in the air right now about it I can't be sure. But I'm done exclusively vacationing in WDW like I used to. In April I'm headed to Europe including a stop in DLP. In October I plan on going back to HHN, but I might also take a day or two for Food and Wine and to check out New Fantasyland. The next WDW-only trip I have formulating right now won't be until January 2013. So yes, WDW will still get some of my vacation money. I love the place for it not to. but if they continue to decline in the maintenance department, that money will become less and less.
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn <<Would you get an annual pass to the Grand Canyon, Yosemite, or Yellowstone if you lived near?> What is that meant to imply?> The national parks hardly change or update, unless there's snow, floods, rockslides, hippie infestations, or fire. Yet they provide a fanciful experience everytime you go. Even the old stuff at Disney that's still OK make the repeatability worth it. With all that's "bad" with Disney, is it 1% of the content? 5%, 10%, 50%? If the bad stuff is less than 5% of the overall content, does that bad 5% heavily outweigh the good 95%?
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper For me it's not that the content is bad (I mean some of it is, but very little), but that the good content isn't maintained to level is should be.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>The national parks hardly change or update, unless there's snow, floods, rockslides, hippie infestations, or fire. Yet they provide a fanciful experience everytime you go.<< I can visit nearby Rocky Mountain National Park for a pittance. It's an apples to oranges comparison.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 Interesting that you comment on the national parks and such. Our new favorite day away is to head to the beach. It has been in the high 70's/low 80's most of 2012 and we can drive to the beach, relax, walk, read and then grab a nice meal out for a lot less than a day at Disney and at the moment it is more enjoyable to us.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 So my next question is this... We see that DL is being fairly well run at the moment. So it seems the systemic problem isn't necessarily at the corporate level but the local level. Is Disney corporate so far removed from WDW that they don't see the problems or do you think that they don't care? Or is it that WDW is so big that they only deal with the large stuff because they can't see that the small stuff is what makes the difference?
Originally Posted By CDF2 In our family, when our kids were in the 7-16 age range, we did WDW every other year as I had lots of FF mileage, the old Magic Kingdom Club discounts were great and the ticketing options were much simpler (a 4-day ticket was a park-hopper and unused days lasted forever). As the kids are now older, my wife and I don't feel any need to travel to Orlando when Disneyland is just 30 minutes down the road in Anaheim. And even at that, we got to DL once every couple of years. Point to all this being - while initially you feel you can't get too much of a good thing eventually you do - and it is quite possible now that many of the baby boomer generation who as kids may have only visited Disney parks once a year or less have now gone through a number of years with Disney park vacations or APs or Vacation Club where they have gorged themselves on Disney park/vacation offerings and are finally getting to the point of looking for something else. One seems to hear that many of the older posters to this site don't go to the parks as often as they once did when they were younger and/or had their small kids in tow - that doesn't seem surprising at all.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 I agree. There is always a sense that I have changed as much as Disney has and that plays into our reduced visits. Having said that, we have been AP holders for many years at Universal Studios and this year we renewed our passes again. Even though we have seen everything there many times, there is a feeling of excitement that we have about being there. Part of it comes from the fact that over the past couple of years Universal seems interested in offering new experiences to its guest. Harry Potter was the crowning achievement in that, but we are excited about what is there and what looks like it is coming.
Originally Posted By Manfried I think its better not to go so often. I have a pass, with blackout dates, but try to only go a couple times a year. I must say I really enjoyed Harry Potter at Universal. When I do go, I try to spend a whole day in whichever park I go to. It's a bit of a drive for me so that makes sense. My partner doesn't always go with me, but he agrees, a whole day is more fun.
Originally Posted By leobloom My family had APs in the 1990s, and I got an AP when I moved to Orlando around 2003. But I haven't felt compelled to get one since then. For a few years I got admission by working seasonally at the parks. Now if I go, it's because a CM has gotten me into the parks on their Main Gate pass. I think my feelings about WDW parallel a lot of what's been said by others here. The place seems largely stagnant. The new additions -- Toy Story Mania, Star Tours 2, Everest -- haven't really impressed me in recent years (at least not to the point where I want to go back and see the new attractions again). The "old" classics are fun to revisit, but not more than once a year. In fact, my last day-trip to MK was last June, and I had such a miserable time with the crowds, the restaurants, and the lack of anything new and legitimately improved, I really don't know when I'll return again. I can do without the WDW of today. And judging from the lack of discussion on this board, I'd say I'm not the only one who feels that way.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> Our new favorite day away is to head to the beach. It has been in the high 70's/low 80's most of 2012 and we can drive to the beach, relax, walk, read and then grab a nice meal out for a lot less than a day at Disney and at the moment it is more enjoyable to us. << We've found the same to be true. There are many more places to have a fun day-trip than simply WDW.
