Originally Posted By dresswhites over at miceage, they are debating (as usual) the decline of theme at disneyland. many posters point to specifically to pirates lair as being one of the last straws. i been thinking and thinking about this. i really think that perhaps disney should reclassify pirates lair as a new orleans square attraction rather than a frontierland attraction. i agree pirates don't have much to do with the old west, but they do have alot to do with the history of New Orleans. it seems like an easy thing to classify the rafts and island as a New Orleans attraction. the raft dock lies at the foot of the land and much of the island faces New Orleans Square. Over the years the Canoes, have been listed in both Critter Country and Frontierland. So why not the rafts and island. I really do enjoy pirates lair, i think there are some really neat effects, plus it has kept many of the items that made tsi so magical. you still feel like your millions of miles away from disneyland and the real world. To me the island is wonderfully themed, so maybe they should shift the location to New Orleans Square so people don't feel like the frontierland theme is being compromised. Thoughts?
Originally Posted By ecdc Truth be told, I'm sitting here wondering if there's a part of Pirates Lair that me and my kids somehow missed. I really felt like the entire thing was a waste of my time. I'm rarely disappointed at Disneyland, and that was disappointing to me. Now, I don't want to go off on a rant here, but I'm pretty Pirated out. And this comes from someone whose favorite ride is Pirates. I'd like to own a t-shirt that says "I liked Pirates of the Caribbean before it was a movie." My problem with Pirates in the park isn't so much the Pirates themselves, but with the lack of imagination in Disneyland. Mind, I'm probably considered something of a "pollyana." I only get to the parks once, maybe twice a year if I'm really lucky. So it's easy for me to look past the flaws. That said, DL does seem to have changed a bit. Some people, in reference to IASW for example, have called this the "toonification" of DL. I actually think it's not quite that. Instead, it's more of a tendency to turn DL into a self-referential museum rather than a cutting edge innovator. More often than not, that involves toons since Disney is best known for them. But Pirates is the perfect example of DL coming full circle. Here is arguably the most well-themed, innovative, Disneylandesque ride in the park. Disney takes it and makes it into a movie, which becomes a smash hit. Then, apparently completely unaware of the irony, takes its success and pumps it back into the park.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***a tendency to turn DL into a self-referential museum rather than a cutting edge innovator*** Very interesting comment. I'll have to take some time to ponder that one. <--begins pondering.
Originally Posted By bean I really do not see how changing the Island to be part of New Orleans will make a diference. The Island seems to fall as a border between more than one land to really affect either New Orleans or frontierland. Also the added effects and theme are not extremely visible from either land to become obtrusive. The biggest problem is the signage and that is basically situated in the rivers edge frontierland portion next to New Orleans Square. As for the Pirate attraction and the movie, one thing that has never been brought up is the close relation between them besides the obvious. The movies story draws quite a bit from not only the attraction but also from previous ideas that were never realized in either WDW's pirate attraction and Disneyland;s attraction. The Pirates lair incarnation is very similiar to a once envisioned scene taht was suppose to be create for the Pirate attraction. Guests would disembark the boats and walk thru a cave and encounter a pirate that rveals its true curse by turning into a skeleton when the moonlight striked. The scene never materialized for many reasons. There are other similiar ideas in the movie that were once talked about and envision for the attraction specifically the one in the MK way before the movie was even considered. I think the problem with the changes have little to do with the added effects and additions but more with the close connection to the now very recognizable characters in the movie being portrayed in the attraction
Originally Posted By nemopoppins Tom Sawyer Island was no more fun anyway due to the fear of liability and the loss of the fort. I think the pirates addition almost made up for that. At least at the beginning. This summer it seems they have gone a little low budget entertainment wise. And when they first opened Pirate's Lair, they combined some Tom Sawyer elements. I liked that. I hadn't been there since last summer and I don't know why they did it, but I was disappointed when they erased all references to Tom Sawyer from the lookout. As for Frontierland vs. New Orleans Square theming, old New Orleans at the mouth of the Mississippi gives me a frontierlike flavor anyway. I think the island could go either way comfortably.
Originally Posted By Socrates Was there any mention of pirates in the book "Tom Sawyer"? Socrates "The unexamined life is not worth living."
Originally Posted By Hista98 the problem with retheming it is that most of the visabilty of the island would not work, if they were to add more of a new orleans look to the island rather then the west look, it would ruin all the attractions around it. I think add ing pirates lair was an aweful mistake, given that pirate mania, is now over for the most part even though's who made the films are sick of them. and it seemed like a waste of money, becuase no one relly cares anymore, i see as many people on the island now as when it was TSI. It was a temporay few months fix to promote the movie, once nemo opened no one even cared about the island. i think soon they will quietly remove the pirates theme from it all together. once all the stuff on it breaks. it's the same mistake that universal is making adding harry potter, the hype for that is now over, why did they wait so long. honestly they could have spent the money on other things.
Originally Posted By Disneyland55 I heard they are coming out with a new movie called, "Pirates Lair on Tom Sawyer's Island." It should be a big hit!
Originally Posted By crapshoot <<Was there any mention of pirates in the book "Tom Sawyer"?>> Tom, Huck and Injun Joe romantisized the pirates of old and took on that personna while rafting over to Hunter Island to hide from the town's people. And Mark Twain got it right in that the major rivers had been great hideouts and bases of operations for the practicing pirates up until the late 18th century. Up and down the Mississippi river, one still finds archeological evidence of pirates here and there. Now, the original concept for the pirate overlay on TSL was to promote the films. They also had planned for "planned obsolesence" of the overlay as well. Realistically, POC films are only relevant in and around a release date. After some time passing, the relevance fades a bit. So what was originally planned for the overlay was to let the displays turn more generic to that of both the geography and era of Tom Sawyer. So the displays too, would become more of archeological unearthings that Tom and Huch would have found rather than the current active pirate operations. There will be a time when Capt. Jack will be a faded memory on TSL.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros To me, it really doesn't matter where they say the island lies. The point is that it can be seen from all over, and should be themed to fit with the entire area. For the most part, it is (with the exception of the sunken ship that can be seen from the Columbia, Twain, and canoes), so that doesn't really matter. While there may be a little more connection to pirates in New Orleans, I don't really think most people realize that. There's the obvious connection of the ride in NOS, but for some reason (that never made sense to me), the pirate part of the ride takes place in a different place than the first few scenes, and the entrance to it. If they wanted to, they could move the land that the rafts are officially in, since I doubt most people think of that as Frontierland anyway, but it really wouldn't make a bit of difference to my perception of the area. I also found it very interesting that while I was in DL this week (all day Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday), I don't think I ever saw much of a crowd on the island. Even when they had the pirate band playing out front, I don't think I ever saw more than about 5 or 10 people at one time. It seems that a lot of people went over last year to see what the commotion was about, and after realizing that it was much ado about nothing, have since moved on to other more interesting things around the parks.
