I think the Hernandez family needs an accountant

Originally Posted By Elderp

I got the DVC package in the mail the other day and in it there is a quote from the Hernandez family and it said "Believe me, we've put the numbers down on paper to see how we can spend our vacation dollars, and we always find that becoming a DVC Member was the best way to do it."

If your out there Hernandez family what are you talking about?! The cheapest plan you can buy is 14700 dollars that is like 98 dollars a point! Just to stay at the DL hotel on the off season in the cheapest room m-th it costs 23 points. That comes out to over 2000 per night! and that doesn't even include park admission!! In fact the cheapest vacation I could find is for Atlanta in the rainy season in a cheap room at 6 points. The most expensive plan gives you 2000 point but it cost 196,000 dollars. I did my own search and for 69,000 I can stay at any of the Disney resorts 365 days a year and get PAP passes for all of them. Am I missing something here?? Why would anyone buy this plan. In the book it says you will have pride in ownership. Ownership of what?! Your points. It isn't like you actually own part of Disney. Anyhow, sorry to pick on the Hernandez family but your quote is in the book. Perhaps, someone can tell me why the DVC is so great. To me it just looks expensive.

 

Originally Posted By Ursula

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it that you pay once for the points and then you get that many points each year for 40 or 50 years?

You don't pay that amount each year, just to start up. You do have an annual maintenance fee, though.

I was very interested in DVC under my in-laws bought us another timeshare and it was free for us since they paid! Best.Deal.Ever.

 

Originally Posted By Elderp

Congrats on the time share. The deal with the DVC is that the you have to buy your "share" for whatever number of points you want (14k-190k)so it comes out to 98 per point. Then after that you pay 4dls per point you selected as dues. You can finance your first years dues over 7 years but then you end up paying double with interest.

 

Originally Posted By vbdad55

As a member since 1994 - I can tell you the math does add up --

you need to either read more closely or get one of the DVC reps to walk you thru --

you pay for the points once - up front - and if you don't want to pay interest on the loan, pay cash. ( also if you are paying 'mortgage interest' it is tax deductible so there is 1/3 of that back. If you think you are ging to pay double, don't ever look at a truth in lending statement when you buy a house -- and see what you really pay for it, borrowing money is expensive.

The amount of monthly maintenance and taxes I pay are around $100 yet the portion that is property taxes is also tax deductible.

I have enough points to stay in a two bedroom for 2 - 3 weeks depending on season. We use the points at Old Key West ( the best value point wise )- and at Vero Beach.

The first time I bought points I bought 270 -- @ $58 per.
In 1994 this included park passes thru the year 2000 - and after 12 trips in that time for a family of 4 I had already recovered my money - and have another 32 years to use the points.

I added more points along the way at different rates.

The key to the DVC is that you have to be sure you are going to go that many times....or take that many vacations ( as you can also transfer your points to other vacation desitinations -- again spend time with a DVC rep) --

If you are going to go for the next 40 years - think about this. The rooms that were $180 / night in 1990 are $300 - $400 a night now. You have your rates 'locked' --

How much do you think a 1 bedroom suite or 2 bedroom suite will rent nightly for in 2025 ? At the rate things are going now, maybe $750 or more ? Yes there is time value of money, I clearly understand that -- but it becomes mkeaningless if you have your room paid for.

The property is deedable property, so yes you do own something, although it does have an expiration date.

Take a look at the DVC resales - there are very few for 60,000 families + that have bought in, and I could sell my share today for more than I paid for it after having used it for 11 years.

Also perks come along like this year where each family member was able to get $100 - $125 off the annual pass -- for a family of 4 that is $500 --

you need to spend more time going thru this instead of trashing the plan - there are not 60,000 + idiot families out there willing to give away money for pride in ownership

 

Originally Posted By Elderp

"You have your rates 'locked'"

But are your dues locked?

 

Originally Posted By itsme

Well count me in with the dumb Hernandaz's thoughts cause im with them.
VB post was great but lets look at it this way.

Take a 20k buy in and average it out over 40+ years, thats 500 a year. Add your dues in of lets say about 100{which part is tax ded} then thats about 600 a year for that 40+.

Now lets use the Beach Club as an example {since that was the last place i stayed}and say you want to stay there. Its one of the deluxe resorts.
You will have enough points to stay there for a week to 10 days every year in a 1 bedroom room that has 2 bathrooms which helps getting everyone ready, a jacuzzi tub to relax in if yuor tired at the end of the day, a full kitchen with a full size refrigerator that you can stuff full of food that will stay good all week, now you can now pack lunches to take to the parks everyday which could save you close to half of what you pay for admission to the parks.

But also that 600 now has you staying in a room that if you bought as just a regular visitor of DW it would cost about 2500 for the week and thats staying in a non-view regular base room, 2 beds and a bathroom.
If you wanted a room like you get by being a DVC member it will cost you about 4000 for the week.

Call me dumb all day, I love it and have never regretted it, Actually the only thing i regret is that i didnt buy more points in my home resort before they sold out.

 

Originally Posted By itsme

Whoops bad math, Not 600 a year 1700 a year.

 

Originally Posted By vbdad55

<"You have your rates 'locked'"

But are your dues locked? <

Your dues are capped for each yearly increase -- in 11 years my dies have gone up $1.74 per month in total from where they were in 1994

 

Originally Posted By vbdad55

itsme -- the trouble is everyone thinks immediately that Disney is trying to scam them somehow -- and they don;t do the math --

the demographics of the 60,000 families includes a lot of professionals that have made a habit of doing the math - as well as a lot of people who just figured a way to finance future vacations for them selves and their kids for a long time.

the DVC member wins because if you actually go that often, you will save money -- and Disney wins because they get their money relatively up front - time value of cash - investment into more building etc. ---

No one is going to pay $200,000 per year for a few weeks,

ELDERP -- if you really have interest in the DVC ( and you will find plenty of happy members here on thee boards ) - seriously call a DVC rep and have them walk you thru.

I know Roadtrip here used to have a well documented $$ cost / savings from posts we had about 2 years ago ----he did an excellent job on it.

 

Originally Posted By itsme

>>as well as a lot of people who just figured a way to finance future vacations for them selves and their kids for a long time.
-----

Yea that was My wife and I, We were not married yet and had no kids at that time but knew that it was just a matter of time. So we bought then knowing that we would soon be and have.
Now seeing how much per-point has gone up since then im glad we didnt wait.

Since we have stayed in DW a few times with our son earlier this year we were at a hotel in Pittsburgh and my son keep asking where is the kitchen? Where we gonna put our food and drinks? Why is everything in the same room?

I had always been one against "time shares" All week my wife{fiance at that time} keep saying we should look into this while we were here, a few of her clients were members and loved it.
I keep saying im not going to buy a time share.

So one day i come out of a restroom and there she is at the DVC booth, I got a big smile from the greeter, I Laughed and said ok where do we go from here.
I figured i would let them do ther speech and say ok we will think about it and get back to you, that would get me out of there.
It was a no brainer once we talked to them, Our sales person was surprised how once he explained it and how its not a "time share" per say, how much my mind and feeling about it had changed.{he said afterwards he was starting to think there was no way we were gonna buy}

I paid cash there that day, worked out a pretty good deal on some back points by doing so and since i hammered him so hard over the #'s and details during our meeting, a ride to the airport as it was the day we were going home and were now running a little late, Its been one of the better if not the best things i ever bought.
Class all the way around.

 

Originally Posted By Elderp

"and they don;t do the math --"
I did do the math and all the numbers I presented were rounded with in the nearest dollar. Whatever, if your happy with it that is fine. I have done the math and averaging $22 per point over 7 years isn't my idea of savings but to each their own. I am not going to call a rep on it. All they are going to do is skew the numbers their way, which is ok because that is what they do. The other thing is even though the plan is expensive in my opinion, if you like it than there is the "fun" factor which is really hard to put a price on but then that is where personal preference comes in. I am glad you enjoy the DVC as for me I have gone over the numbers and it is a scam and I can buy the same vacation much cheaper, but that is just me. Like I said if you are happy paying out to Disney have fun.
"No one is going to pay $200,000 per year for a few weeks,"
According to the package I got you can buy 2000 points for $196,000 plus 7,000 in annual dues. That is 203,000 (assuming I know my math). That will get you 75 days (if you use them economically) at the Vero Beach resort. That is about 10 weeks (more like 11). The only problem for me with that scenario is I can buy a whole year for much less.

Oh, on a side note I was looking on Ebay and you can buyout someone else's plan for half of what you can buy it directly from Disney. Which if I was going to buy a DVC package

 

Originally Posted By itsme

>> I can buy the same vacation much cheaper,
------

No actually you cant, But by what you have written there is no need to try to explain it.

Ps. Dont ever buy a car, Its a waste of money and you can get more by walking everywhere, Ive done the math.

 

Originally Posted By itsme

>>Oh, on a side note I was looking on Ebay and you can buyout someone else's plan for half of what you can buy it directly from Disney
---------

I just looked on Ebay, The couple auctions for DVC that have closed recently sold for 84 a point.

There are a few open now, one with 2 days left thats at 80 and about 30 bids, A couple that still have 12 days left and they are at 66 but onl 1 bid.
I look for them to also probably reach at least the 80 mark.

Im not so sure about your math, but my math tells me that half of 98 is 49, Can you show where points are being sold for half?
I think your math needs some work.

 

Originally Posted By vbdad55

<According to the package I got you can buy 2000 points for $196,000 plus 7,000 in annual dues. That is 203,000 (assuming I know my math). That will get you 75 days (if you use them economically) at the Vero Beach resort. That is about 10 weeks (more like 11). The only problem for me with that scenario is I can buy a whole year for much less.
<

that would get you 75 days for 50 years -- so the math is that will get you 3750 days !

that's $53 / day based on spending $200,000.

Sorry, you're math is faulty -- you keep basing everything on one year - the deal is for 50 years -- not one.

SO you need to quit calling this a scam until you do a little better job with your number crunching


<<Oh, on a side note I was looking on Ebay and you can buyout someone else's plan for half of what you can buy it directly from Disney. Which if I was going to buy a DVC package
<

Oh, bye the bye-- Disney has final approval of any sale of DVC points -- so don;t count on a 50% discount -- also I have never seen them sold for that. What can happen though is Disney is not going to let you buy at $58/pt like I did and sell for $100/pt --

you seriously need to get over this scam thing ( and get back to math class )

 

Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney

DVC isn't a timeshare? Hah. So that's what they are saying to get away from the much-earned negative connotation timeshares have.

Is DVC worth it? That depends on the individuals involved. If you do the math and use Disney's numbers and assume hotel rates will keep increasing at a much higher rate than they actually have. If cooking when on vacation is your idea of fun or money-saving then having a kitchen certainly helps.
The units are very nice, although not nearly as nice as some Marriott and Hyatt Vacation Club properties I've been to. Having the extra space is terrific.

I, personally, wouldn't want to pay in advance for four decades plus of vacations. I also don't for a minute believe Disney hotels will increase their rates exponentially into the future. Rack rates keep going up, but the discounts keep right on increasing as well. I also think it more or less locks folks in to WDW or DCL vacations, whether or not you can use your points all over the world, as people tend to just keep coming back.

Is DVC a scam? Hell no.

Is it a wise investment? I don't think so. You can buy a home in the area and own a vacation home and rent it out as many folks do.

Does it make sense (financially and/or emotionally)? That's an individual choice.

I guess what I'm babbling about is ultimately there is no right or wrong answer except for the individual.

 

Originally Posted By davewasbaloo

I know I wish I took the plunge 5 years ago and bought in. The rates seemed to have nearly doubled in that time.

 

Originally Posted By vbdad55

How can you not think that the rates will not increase exponentially, or that discounts will continue forever. The discounts go away when travel is good in the world -- also they will go away as interest rates rise- just a financial reality.

I have seen the rates at DVC units double for rental in 11 years -- so they are going to stop ? Don't think so, sounds more like wishful thinking., but if you are right then it would be the first time rastes don;t rise like that over 40 - 50 years.

As far as Marriott units-- I have stayed in one near WDW on 192 from work and it was second rate...andmore expensive. Counter tops / furniture - appliances were poor. I kow they have nicer ones also but they are NOT cheaper by any stretch.

The flexilibity of the DVC 'timeshare' is at the top of this industry -- so is it a timeshare-- yes and no.

I do agree the investment doesn;t universally fit all parties, no purchase does.....but if likemany people on these boards you think you will go oce a year for the foreseeable future, it is a buy

 

Originally Posted By RoadTrip

Yes vbdad, as you mentioned I've done a very detailed analysis and DVC is an excellent investment assuming you would go to WDW every year anyway, which we certainly would.

But even a SIMPLE analysis shows that it is very worthwhile right from the start, even if you DO finance your purchase.

We purchased 200 points and financed 80% of the purchase price. Our monthly mortgage payment runs about $140 and the monthly maintenance runs about $60. That is a total of $200 per month or $2,400 per year. That number of points allows us to use a one bedroom villa for 7-10 days per year depending on season. That means we are paying between $240 per night and $343 per night depending on season. Since the one bedroom villas rent for $400 per night in the value season, we are receiving an IMMEDIATE discount even while we are still paying the mortgage.

Once the mortgage is paid (I think we have another 3-4 years to go) we will be paying only maintenance of about $720 per year for an accommodation worth at least $4,000 per year. And as vbdad mentioned, our annual maintenance fee has gone up very little... far less than the percentage increase in WDW resort rates.

So...

You get a nice savings EVEN WHILE you are paying on your mortgage. Once that is paid for you get OUTSTANDING savings. How is this not a good deal?

As vbdad pointed out, your numbers are based upon the premise that you are paying that large amount for ONE year's use. You are paying for 40 years of use. When we bought 200 points that is not a TOTAL of 200 points, but 200 points PER YEAR for forty years.

Now it appears that Elderp is looking for a reason not to buy, and that is certainly his right. But please don't claim it is a 'scam' because it absolutely is not.

 

Originally Posted By Mrs ElderP

ElderP perhaps overuses the word scam. (Love you sweetie) After looking at the same promotional materials I think that DVC is a good value for someone looking for a resort vaction experiance. For a family on a tight budget (like us) it is possible to spend as much time at WDW and spend much less money, primarily by being in much less posh conditions. However, for the park we are familar with, DL, there is no way that the DVC is a good value. If all you were going to do is use most of your points at the DL hotel, the AP rates are much cheaper. GCH, mabye? Does anyone one off the top of their head what kind of discount DVC members would get on a Premium AP for DL? Thanks

 

Originally Posted By RoadTrip

<<However, for the park we are familar with, DL, there is no way that the DVC is a good value. If all you were going to do is use most of your points at the DL hotel, the AP rates are much cheaper. GCH, mabye? Does anyone one off the top of their head what kind of discount DVC members would get on a Premium AP for DL? Thanks>>

I agree. I would not have purchased DVC if I did not plan to regularly use the DVC resorts. We occasionally stay at the non-DVC resorts just to see what they are like, but the value is nowhere near what you get when staying at a DVC resort. If I planned to just stay at "regular" Disney resorts, I would not purchase DVC either.