Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 OK ... got your attention? Good. Because while The Mouse and the HK SAR play this highstakes game of cat ... and ...well, mouse ... what it comes down to is a game that's been played before. And a basic reality of being Disney ... and having that rep ... that MAGIC ... that comes along with it. Now, read the title of the thread and ask yourself a fundamental question: How would Disney ever recover from something like that? That's all you need to know about the future of HKDL, despite the gamesmanship going on. Because if you think D23 was a lot of hype over nothing, well this is a lot of hype over doing something and who is going to pay for it. The PR campaign choreographed by folks like Zenia and Leslie under the direction of Bob and Jay has already begun. Start suggesting thru others (like that PopWallet dude who says he was at the opening of the place) about HKDL closing down ... that Disney has just had it with those backward officials who don't realize that just because they paid 80% of developing a Disneyland Lite (I gotta admire the dude used a term I first coined online years before setting foot in the park) doesn't mean they shouldn't shoulder most of the costs for any expansion. Talk about that great site ... and how with all the congestion in HK what they really need desperately are more giant 50-story apartment/condo towers and why it would make sense to place that on the site of a failed park. Know that with journalism being what it is these days that 'reputable' orgs will pick it up and run with big headlines that claim things like 'Disney Park In Deep Trouble' ... 'Disney Park Could Close' ... 'Disney's Failed China Project To Shutter?' etc ... And know the HUGE smiles that wind up on the faces of those powerbrokers back in Burbank ... as well as those working in Shanghai to steamroll the Central Government on the next Disney resort in China. It's like Bob is standing on a poster of Mao and urinating while saying 'Oh yeah baby, who just toppled your Great Wall?' The thing is, though, we've been through this before. And China isn't France. And Disney should really have its best and brightest (and they are very few and far between) sit back and analyze what talk like this really does and how it could backfire. You wanna talk about the kind of black eye that Disney can/could never come back from? Imagine watching a wrecking ball take a a few whacks at Sleeping Beauty Castle or Space Mountain or Small World so they build high rise apartments on the site ... watch them implode the HKDL Hotel ... or maybe turn it into a Hyatt. Disney would recover from some whacko 'evildoer' going on an attack and shooting people or blowing himself up at a park easier than that. I wonder if they get that. These are the same tactics they used with Euro Disney. Remember, they were going to have to close the park, six resorts and the Village area too. That's what even Michael Eisner came out and threatened. Wonder when they'll trot out a release with a statement by Bob saying likewise about HKDL ... and making it sound like Disney is a poor victim of those Chinese bureacrats. What amazes me is how easily the officials are allowing Disney to orchestrate the PR campaign. They might be smarter to take some advice and put on a campaign of their own showing what was supposed to be built at HKDL (with all that great 'missing' art) and show what actually was. Show how much they have put into the project against what Disney has. Show how paltry HKDL stacks up to other MK-style parks. In other words, give Mickey a taste of his own meds. ~Playing the same song over and over again doesn't make it good music~
Originally Posted By WorldDisney Honestly, if it actually came to the point that they would just end up taking a wrecking ball to the place, sadly I would say I wouldnt miss it. Honestly!! I think I will go even further and say the majority of people who been to that place probably wouldnt really miss it either. Sure, I dont think they would want it to come to that of course, but my point is I doubt anyone would lose much sleep if it was gone tomorrow. I have yet to hear of any hard core fans for this park like you do the U.S. parks, Tokyo or Paris. Its just kind of 'there' for most.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Now, read the title of the thread and ask yourself a fundamental question: How would Disney ever recover from something like that?*** Disney would barely be effected by it. Few people outside of China even know that HKDL exists. Fewer still could give a rat about the place. (by the way..great title! I must admit I got my hopes up for a few moments. )
Originally Posted By Malin As long as both sides continue to play these games the more of an impact its going to have on the parks future. Ocean Park is schedule to open next year I believe a big expansion that will see the park double in size and will make Hong Kong Disneyland look even weaker in comparrison. The talk of closing the park down is not going to happen or it will put a big stepping stone in Iger's plans to rule China. The Govement would also take a big hit as it would be closing down a park that it spent million of tax payers money on and in another bad move would be cutting hundreds of jobs. The park needs expansion and both sides need to stop wasting time by playing chicken.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 I am not surprised by WD and X's feelings ... although I still would have thought they'd appreciate and understand the kind of black eye Disney would ever get if a MK -- even HKDL Lite -- were to be demolished. You just don't come back from that. And you don't replace HKDL with Shanghai DL like they're interchangable. This is all just sickening posturing and I am blaming Disney for the lion's share of the responsibility here. They hoodwinked the officials into paying the vast majority of the development cost and then built what almost was a DL facade in many ways (and I admit to being a big fan of the place). The development style of opening half-assed, half-built parks (unless they were spending OLC's money) has bitten them every time. The difference is in Anaheim and Paris, it can be argued that it didn't matter how much of a success DCA and DSP were out of the gates because they added days to stays and $$$ to guest spend per click. HKDL was opening a new resort ... was a first gate and a MK ... in an entirely new market. I'd love to hear the justification used for half-assing it ... but the only one here who could give that isn't going to. ~Where's Pierce?~
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< 'd love to hear the justification used for half-assing it ... >>> I don't know about justification, but I can take an educated guess as to the reason. Consider what happened between the official announcement of the project in the late 90's (complete with details of several major attractions that didn't appear on Opening Day) and when actual park construction started in 2003: DCA. To go from what was planned to be a runaway success to a financial and PR debacle must have been a huge pill to swallow. I can't help but think that this is at least partially the reason that investment in HKDL was cut between the announcement and construction.
Originally Posted By oc_dean Hey .. maybe now Disney can $ave some money on WDW's Space Mountain renovation .. by using HKDL's for spare parts.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<I am not surprised by WD and X's feelings ... although I still would have thought they'd appreciate and understand the kind of black eye Disney would ever get if a MK -- even HKDL Lite -- were to be demolished. You just don't come back from that.>> Me and X are quite the team, arent we ;D. That said, I'm not saying I WANT or hope this happen, of course not. I want both parties to get their *stuff* together and simply figure out what to do with this park in the long term. It sounds like they at least agreed on a plan, but its now just financing it, which is stupid. Every month this park stays in its present position, that's less interest this park has in the long run. This isnt DL, a nice little marketing campaign or some seasonal event isnt going to bring in the masses, certainly not long term. Either get it together or shut the thing down before they lose another $150 million this year....and the next..and the next. <<And you don't replace HKDL with Shanghai DL like they're interchangable. This is all just sickening posturing and I am blaming Disney for the lion's share of the responsibility here. They hoodwinked the officials into paying the vast majority of the development cost and then built what almost was a DL facade in many ways (and I admit to being a big fan of the place).>> As I was telling Irishfan in my half drunken state last night at the pub lol, I kind of WOULD like to see Disney fall on its butt for a change. I get sick of hearing their bullying tactics to make these crazy deals and threatening to take their business elsewhere when perspective cities or countries dont give in. I am glad Disney's America never got made, not only because I just thought it was a bad idea (that has now morphed itself into DCA *sigh*) but because they just thought and expected they would just roll out the red carpet for them because they are *Disney*. Yes, the HK government got hoodwinked BIG TIME because Disney knows how badly these places want these theme parks and I always wonder why?? TDR is the only runaway sucess outside of America and the others are struggling, including most of the half-day parks and this one. And yet, now Shanghai seems to be drooling the prospect of having a potential albatros around its neck. You would think just watching whats happening with HKDL, they wouldnt be soo excited to be in line for one, but I'm hoping if NOTHING else, these people are bargaining much better this time: finacially and building a theme park right the first time around. But if they completely fall on their butt with HKDL, maybe they need a little more humility that they just cant build a half ass park and expect people to flock to these things regardless. That said, IF HKDL really did fail, yes, it would have a richter effect in China in terms of theme park building, but Disney will still have other avenues in getting a foothold in China with their movie, tv show and merchandise divsions. Hell, maybe they can try the Disney Stores again. So its not like the company cant do more business in China, just not theme parks, there are other options although I'm guessing the theme parks would probably be the biggest assest to have. <<The development style of opening half-assed, half-built parks (unless they were spending OLC's money) has bitten them every time.>> Yep, I made the same point in another thread and I ask again KNOWING that why do they keep trying this model? It simply doesnt work. Its ONLY been sucessful, really sucessful, at MGM Studios and that sucess obviously have a dozen different factors this and the other parks dont have. But yet, they keep plugging away with it. <<The difference is in Anaheim and Paris, it can be argued that it didn't matter how much of a success DCA and DSP were out of the gates because they added days to stays and $$$ to guest spend per click. HKDL was opening a new resort ... was a first gate and a MK ... in an entirely new market.>> Again, us lamens figured this out months before HKDL opened, how come these people who are paid a ridiculously amount of money couldnt figure out if you build a park, as pretty and well known as it is, isnt going to attract the masses when it cost 2-3 times as much to visit then any other theme park in China and yet have have half the attractions as those other parks, including Ocean Park, its main competitor and been a staple of HK for decades? Sorry, you dont have to be Nostradamus to have seen this coming.
