Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 The Spirit doesn't usually venture into the world of rumor unless he has an inside source(s) to validate the info, but this time ... well, I just have a hunch this is accurate. Too many others are hearing this, apparently Disney will be finally getting around to rehabbing Space Mountain in early 2008, before it can kill someone (it's really not in the best of shape after years of 'deferred' maintanance). So what will be done? Perhaps an 18-month full gutting and rebuilding a new version for the 21st century ... maybe add some real effects, soundtrack, new track and layout? Maybe the double version with two intertwining tracks (one more hardier with inversions, one closer to what we have now)? Hah??!! Fools ye be says I (sorry, but with PoC merchandise for sale in Tomorrowland, who can blame me for speaking pirate?) No, apparently, the money has been cut to such an extent that really NOTHING of substance will be done at all. You read that right. No new anything to speak of. No upgrades of any kind or special effects were budgeted at all. New sound? No. New lighting? No. Even a fully new track? Nope. Just repairs and some track replacement so it doesn't kill anyone (it really is in bad shape and no, I have no intention of riding it again). Maybe some cleaning too. How many pictures do you think Phil Holmes will have to plant in the local fishwrapper before someone notices how pathetically maintained that park is. What an embarrassment to the Disney name and legacy. I can't imagine that folks like John Lasseter and, more importantly, No. 1 Disney stockholder Steve Jobs are thrilled. Nope. Hey, Phil, you took my advice before. Here's some more: polish up that resume and start sending 'em because you can't possibly be that incompetent and hold on to the job forever. Just won't happen. Plenty of spirits more powerful than you just aren't happy with the job you're doing. Oh, and take Erin Wallace with you on the way out, won't you ... you can leave the puppy behind.
Originally Posted By figment1986 What?? just a small track replacement and station enhancements and nothing else? please say it is not so...
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <I can't imagine that folks like John Lasseter and, more importantly, No. 1 Disney stockholder Steve Jobs are thrilled. < Time for Steve to step up and be counted, we all know he is not shy about voicing his opinion - now would be the time... (btw - just watched the PBS special - Hippies - and there is our boy Steve featured near the end of a well done special - with Wozniak talking about him being part of the Kesey bunch - who'd have thunk he'd be the 'man' at Disney one day )
Originally Posted By TarzanRocked99-06 So is this a done deal, has the final budget been greenlit. I have heard there were so many wonderful concepts being toyed with for the refurb, is there a chance that something miraculous will happen and we get a real re-hab instead???
Originally Posted By a1stav SM needs a complete re-working. All of the other versions of this classic E-Ticket around the world are MUCH better. DL version now ranks as one of my favorite rides and I was never a SM junkie.
Originally Posted By twirlnhurl Honestly, I was hoping that the post show area would be redone to something less Fed Ex. It would also be nice if the windows in the queue would be redone and some all around cleaning up. Am I in a minority them when I say I am glad the track layout will be the same? Space Mountain is the only roller coaster in WDW with any airtime, and I understand that the other Space Mountains do not have any. Sure, some projections along the ride would be cool, but I'm glad the track isn't changing.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 No. This hasn't been definitely approved as far as I know. That's why I presented it as rumor. But since I'm hearing it from numerous places, I have the feeling it's true. And our WDI 'insider' hasn't been around to set me straight if I'm off. This project has been put off and had funds pulled numerous times over the past 3-4 years. And nothing ever happens. Frankly, I've heard from a few people that the track is on the verge of collapse in certain areas. I could easily see Disney pushing an emergency closure ahead of the already planned/already approved/already budgeted Jungle Cruise redo. And, VBDAD, at some point, folks like Lasseter and Jobs are going to come in contact with certain spirits who well understand how mismanaged WDW (and to a lesser extent, all the Disney parks outside of Tokyo) is ... and they're going to do so with no Disney handlers around to mitigate the situation. The ugly truth will spew forth ... and heads will roll. It's not a question of if, but one of when. Phil Holmes, Erin Wallace and Al Weiss are great executives. If you only care about the current bottom line. If you care about a future that goes beyond a few years ... maybe even beyond your lifetime ... well, they're a textbook example of how you destroy a great name.
Originally Posted By MPierce I'm inclined to go with the rumor of new lighting, and sound, as well as new theming in the queue area. Lee over on WDWmagic who has proven very rational, and reliable over years seems to think this will be a minimum amount done. However I must add that he has not stated that he knows for sure what will happen. With so much concern about the shape of the MK it would seem Mr. Holmes would be much more prepared to stretch the budget in an attempt to salvage his job. Rumor also has it that SM will be down from Jan. 4 until reopening in June. During this time TTA will also get some tender loving care. All of this is just rumor, when you are ready to declare it is fact I'll go with what you say Spirit. Now let me be the first to say...NO not TTA, that's the time of year when I go. Why couldn't they close it down some other time.
Originally Posted By brotherdave I'm one who also likes the current layout of Orlando's Space Mountain so, hearing that it won't become a clone to any previous rides is great news to me! Steel does wear and fatigue with age and use, so it doesn't surprise me at all that major sections of the ride will have to be rebuilt/replaced. That's fairly common with other major steel coasters. But, overall, I'm glad to hear that the overall layout might remain the same. I still say, if you want indoor inversions in the dark, head over to the Studios. Leave Space Mountain as a more 'family friendly' alternative. (And, yes, I consider myself a true coaster junkie having personally ridden over 300 different coasters!) Besides, loops are WAY overated. I much prefer 'airtime' to going upside-down anytime! However, I'm truly hoping for some effects and lighting upgrades to the ride. It truly, desperately needs it!
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>Am I in a minority them when I say I am glad the track layout will be the same? Space Mountain is the only roller coaster in WDW with any airtime, and I understand that the other Space Mountains do not have any. Sure, some projections along the ride would be cool, but I'm glad the track isn't changing.<< No not at all! I too think the mountain could use some significant updates. But read that again: "updates" I think at it's peak condition, it is a great mix of thrills and a one of a kind experience. The inline seating really does benefit this ride. It just needs to be fixed and maintained. I think the queue, load, unload, post-show all have the potential to be great again. It shouldn't take much either. IMO there just is not a need to radically change anything. Change the format. Just update the projections, MAKE IT DARKER, and update the queue & post show. It's a great ride. All that has changed since 1975 is the condition of it.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Rumor also has it that SM will be down from Jan. 4 until reopening in June. During this time TTA will also get some tender loving care.>> Yep. That's the same time frame I'm hearing. I also can't see anything substantial being done in what amounts to six months ... and who knows? Phil may order ops to open it up even if sections of track are missing because you can't possibly have it closed for Spring Break can you? ;-) I'd feel so much better if the rehab time was 18-24 months myself. <<All of this is just rumor, when you are ready to declare it is fact I'll go with what you say Spirit.>> You are most definitely getting the first free tee-shirt if I ever make em up!!! <<Now let me be the first to say...NO not TTA, that's the time of year when I go. Why couldn't they close it down some other time.>> But still ... quit your whining! Complain at City Hall and maybe they'll give you an ice cream bar ... cry and it's dinner at Crystal Palace ... scream and it's dinner and some free tix to come back real soon!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<It's a great ride. All that has changed since 1975 is the condition of it.>> I dunno about that, Mike. I haven't enjoyed it since maybe the early 90s so it's hard for me to judge fairly. Still, I can't help but think that a rocket ride through space in 2007 should be vastly different (and yes, more thrilling) than one from 1975. As much as I love the 'new' old Space Mountain at DL, it in no way compares to what you get at DLP -- and that's after they ruined the theme of the original with what most (I never experienced the original) people say is the vastly inferior Mission 2. I'm not saying WDW needs to shoot riders out of a canon into multiple inversions with a soundtrack onboard BUT I can say I don't want a new 1975 version. DL's current ride is a much different beast then the 1977 original through the use of lighting, effects and soundtrack. That wouldn't be a bad medium for WDW.
Originally Posted By ChiMike And that would be fine. What basically is a permenant overlay on the original 1977 ride layout ends up making DL's Space Mountain my favorite rollercoaster out there. That's all I am saying. The actual WDW ride, when in excellent condition - is quite a ride. I would have loved to see what happened to DL happen to WDW. A replacement of track replicating the original, new effects, new sound, etc. What I am speaking towards above is that I always found it pointless and actually troublesome (considering WDI's track record) that they would gut the building and build a new queue, remove the seperate load/unload, and put a new track layout in the building. I have been on plenty of first visits with folks in the last 10 years who think "X" is the greatest or "Top Thrill Dragster" is the greatest, and they get on WDW's Space and have a blast and say it was scarier and more thrilling than the big boys. The rider is just so much more exposed on our Space Mountain than on even the skimpiest B&M rolling stock. I firmly believe, if operating in a smooth, near-mint condition, with queue, ride and post-show effects/scenes that are updated, this ride can still be VERY relevant. They just don't make them like this anymore. The queue used to be majestic, eerie, and transcendental. That was in 1975. They can keep the queue, update it, and still strive to present the same vibe.. Space Mountain's queue has always been a GREAT set-up for the attraction. The post-show has been dumbed down so much since the original that it too needs an update. But is it going to turn into another crass inoventions-like presentation or can they keep with the spirit of the attraction and give the guest something new and fresh? Are they going to go Six Flags on us and rip out the double-decker load and unload? Save on labor? Kill the effect so expertly employed at WDW of having an empty ride vehicle appear out of nowhere for the guest? A very under-rated design effect. Are they going to go with standard rollercoaster rolling stock so they have two of the same ride at WDW, one themed to 20 year old pop music and the other to space? These are the questions I have asked myself when reading about rehabs over the last 7 years. I have to say that the less they do to the framework of the attraction the better off they are. This is not TimeKeeper where there is no line. Even at a very sorry state of show this attraction is capable of long lines. As you said, Spirit, they need to update the effects, even music, and they CERTAINLY need to stop being lazy and maintain darkness in the building. However, I really think the framework is really underrated and still has a lot of potential if brought up to excellent condition. Or are you taking a page out of Jay's playbook, Spirit, and putting more importance on having 30 identical Space Mountains all across the globe? As it stands today I like DL's Space Mountain VERY much. I like it much more than WDWs. But outside of the simpletons at Disney who take comments like that to mean, "Well, we should make WDW's a copy of DL's". I can see myself preferring WDW with some TLC. DL's is not the end-all-be-all. It has a worse queue, worse load, no post-show, etc. WDW's can certainly carry it's own under the right circumstances. Whew, so there's my jumbled feelings on it. Plenty of things need to be gutted and redone. IMO, Space is not one of 'em. Pull a Small World on it.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Now let me be the first to say...NO not TTA, that's the time of year when I go. Why couldn't they close it down some other time.>> MPierce it is funny that you should say that as that is precisely what MK is up against. MK is a year-round park now with little to no real seasonality unlike every other Disney park (even TDL and DL still have their quieter off-seasons) plus it has the lowest number of repeat/AP visitors so you do have to plan any significant refurbishment accordingly. It is a delicate balancing act when you need to take a beloved attraction like POTC, HM, iasw or SM down for an extended period (and 3 of that 4 have gone down in the last few years). The complaint that HM is closed at present is the number 1 issue that City Hall is having to deal with. For DL it isn't an issue to have both iasw and HM closed for the overlay installation and removal and the reason why HMH has never arrived at MK is that it is totally impractical to take out an E-ticket from the park for multiple-week closures annually. There has been the budget for it but ultimately the park opted for the increased Halloween spend like HalloWishes. This is all part of the maintaining the classics project that WDI have implemented over the past few years. Use maintenance downtime to make some changes. I'm not going to comment on Space Mountain at this time but it has been near the top of the list for a long time.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Leave Space Mountain as a more 'family friendly' alternative.>> This is precisely why there won't be any reconfigured SM. The MK needs to be the most family-friendly park in the world as it has the highest number (and percentage) of guests under 11. It is a fine line between a traditional coaster and one that the entire family can enjoy. There are 3 other parks at WDW that all have more extreme thrills and that is precisely how it will stay.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>This is not TimeKeeper where there is no line. Even at a very sorry state of show this attraction is capable of long lines.<<< Moving slightly from topic, I would have to comment that Timekeeper had no line because there has never been an attraction at WDW that was better hidden from the public than TK. Never really promoted, just a small sign at it's entrance and doomed from the start. If they would have used half the promo for TK that they have for Monsters Inc. I would bet that TK would still be there. It would never have the appeal of SM but it would have had it's own audience. Those that appreciated humor and had the ability to still have brain function when not in a seated position. Back to topic.
Originally Posted By brotherdave Very well said ChiMike!!! My sentiments exactly!!! he MK's Space Mountain is a unique attraction from the others SM's, not to mention being the 'first ride of its kind'. I'm all for improving the effects (and fixing the tracks where needed), but, as far as 'gutting' the building, I would be very sad to hear that. As a coaster enthusiast, Space Mountain is STILL one of the best 'family' type ride experiences operating and still my favorite coaster experience in all of WDW!
Originally Posted By brotherdave >>This is precisely why there won't be any reconfigured SM. The MK needs to be the most family-friendly park in the world as it has the highest number (and percentage) of guests under 11. It is a fine line between a traditional coaster and one that the entire family can enjoy. There are 3 other parks at WDW that all have more extreme thrills and that is precisely how it will stay.<< That's great news to hear, leemac! The last thing I'd like to see is a 'suped-up' Space Mountain. The ride is fine as it is. It just needs some TLC!
Originally Posted By nbodyhome I actually like SM - so if they do just "rehab" it, I'm fine with it. I find it hard to believe they'd let it be used now if it was that bad structurally (I do still ride it!) I should be trying out Disneylands version within a couple of weeks.
