Originally Posted By tangaroa I've been thinking a lot about Disneyland and the past and before I post a big long rant about the differences between Disneyland then and now, I wanted to try it out on DCA. This is going to work as kind of a starting off point, but mostly I am trying to encourage debate and discussion on a number of topics. If you like something feel free to reply to that section or to the whole thing, but if you don’t, just answer the basic question: How does DCA today stack up to the DCA of five years ago? Was it better in 2001 or is it better today? In October of 2001, DCA was struggling attendance wise, but it still kept the "flavor" of its opening year. A one day ticket into DCA would have cost you $43 dollars in 2001, and today it would cost you $64 dollars. On October 23, 2001, the park closed at 6:00pm. Today in 2006 the park closed at 6:00pm. In 2001, you would be able to catch any number of fluctuating entertainment shows. Steps in Time and Blast ran in the Hyperion Theater. Eureka and the Electrical parade ran simultaneously, and there were any number of street talents roaming the park. In 2006, the street entertainers are gone, replaced by frequent character cavalcades, and the big Block Party Bash parade. The electrical parade is still there too of course, but now there’s a big flashy show in the Hyperion Theater based on Aladdin. It’s hard to say that the park has made any improvement in the entertainment field – but it really hasn’t declined either. I think overall though, I would have to say the entertainment in DCA is better today than it was in 2001 if, for no other reason, people seem to genuinely LIKE what they have now, compared to the different styles they tried in the beginning. Still I think there’s credit to be given to the times when Disney actually ATTEMPTED something other than character shows. In 2001, if you wanted to eat in DCA you had a LOT of choices, some of which included some of the best services in the resort. DCA opened with three full-service restaurants (Avalon Cove, Vineyard Room, Soap Opera Bistro), which, while being a smaller park, was more than Disneyland’s two (Blue Bayou and Carnation Café). The quality of the food was excellent the choices were numerous. There was Mexican food and Chinese food offered, along with a cafeteria serving deli favorites along with Chinese food, burgers, and pizza – all in one spot. In 2006, only two of the three table service restaurants survived, and only one in its original incarnation (the other one being converted to a character explosion). The quality of the food is still better than Disneyland’s, but the offerings are less than before. Overall I give the edge here to 2001, only because there was more selection to be had. I have to wonder if maybe I’m alone in thinking it was better back then – and I ponder if the decision to close certain venues wasn’t because of the missed attendance projections, but rather because the public wasn’t ready for egg rolls and Wolfgang puck in a theme park. Food is one of only two things I’d ever agree were better than Disneyland when it opened in 2001, and the other being… In 2001, you could buy some of the most unique and interesting merchandise in all of Disneydom at DCA. They had clocks, they had jackets, they had cookware and glasses, and most of all they had art and posters. Everything of all shapes and sizes and all price ranges and the BEST PART: all of it was unique and themed to DCA. Despite absolutely hating the park, I could still spend a lot of time wandering through the shops and wondering… why couldn’t Disneyland do this? In 2006, you can buy 34 different styles of T-Shirts that have the word “DISNEYLAND†and the current year stenciled on the front. I think the only unique DCA merchandise left are the “I survived…†t-shirt series, and the little plastic Orange Stinger toys that go with the WDW monorail set. Overall: 2001 was much better. One of the best and most memorable pieces of DCA merchandise was some of the 1930’s style travel posters they made up that were selling in Condor Flats. I was really pleased when I saw some of that old artwork end up on the park maps earlier this year, because I do think that some of that old merchandise had more heart and soul poured into its creation, than the actual attractions in that park. Speaking of which…. In 2001, DCA opened with 20 attractions. Most were movie or thrill based. It was a real hodgepodge of attraction genres that never really meshed together cohesively. Paradise Pier was dominated by thrill rides, but then in the heart of the boardwalk was a carousel mostly appealing to children. Hollywood Pictures had Superstar Limo, which while the whole family could enjoy it, left most adults with a “meh†feeling at the end. By the end of 2001, everyone recognized that the attraction roster for this park was flawed and needed serious help and there were additions coming right around the corner. In 2006, DCA reaped the benefits of those new attractions. Flik’s Fun Fair opened to mild acclaim, SuperStar Limo was finally replaced by a half decent dark ride, and the Tower of Terror took the top spot in DCA as probably the only real themed attraction in the park. Overall this is a hard area to decide on, because while I DO think the attraction roster was a mess in 2001, the direction they’ve taken the park really hasn’t improved the situation much. That’s not to say that overall the attractions they’ve added have been bad, just … not enough. Flik’s was an excellent themed area with great themed attractions, but only mildly appealing to adults (which is the opposite of Paradise Pier where nothing really appeals to children). Tower of Terror is, without a doubt, the best themed attraction in DCA – but at its core it’s still nothing but a thrill ride, not unlike its cousins over in the pier. I have a feeling though that the Toy Story ride opening in the pier will be exactly the kind of family ride that the park needed since day one – something that can mystify the kids, while still keeping the parents fully engrossed. So for that alone I give the edge to 2006. It’s hard for me to say definitely that the park is better now than it was in 2001. From a completely objective standpoint, I think the park IS healthier now than in 2001 because they shifted their focus from a demographic that was never likely to spend money on a Disney vacation – back to their core audience – which is families with children. But the environment of the park built way back in 2001 just doesn’t seem to mesh well with the direction they’re trying to go now. You have kids running up to watch the characters from CARS parade down the street, while the calliope versions of the 1960s top 40 still play in Paradise Pier. You have a farm area demonstrating different farming techniques, with fiberglass cartoon bugs planted on top of the fields while over at the winery you can clearly hear the theme music from “a Bug’s Life†playing. You have here and now present sitting right next to a fantasy inspired themed attraction and the whole thing just comes off as a mess. Piece by piece DCA is getting better, but looking at the whole picture still just gives me a headache. To make it worse, going back to 2001 I have fond memories of the good merchandise and food that the park had to offer. So why do I feel DCA is a better place today than it was in 2001? The only solution I have is just optimism. I feel that now that Disney has admitted that the park they opened in 2001 has been a complete failure, they are now open to go back and redesign it. I hear rumors about place making projects and redevelopment on a grand scale for this park and I feel that maybe now DCA will finally be able to shed that image of the little theme park that just couldn’t.
Originally Posted By friendofdd That essay is very well done, Tangaroa. I'm a DL fan and once I've done Soarin', Tower and Sscreamin' I'm finished with DCA. Unless I'm hosting visitors. You've given this much thought and I hope you get some good responses.
Originally Posted By oc_dean Here- .. here's my 2 cents wrapped up in the smallest paragraph possible for the long-time LP posters sick of hearing the same old lines I've been saying all along about Disney's Corporate Arrogance.... You draw a line down the pretentiously named "Performance Corridor" .. and everything west of it has not changed since Feb 2001! With the exception of the Brother Bear cave in the challenge-trail ... We're talkin' about 2/3rds of the park! Everything new and slightly different is contained in the northern/east corner ... where the only place DCA every made my favorite sandwiches (Schwabs-Hollywood&Dine) is gone and the "2006" line-up for anything comparable is non existant. Attraction and theme wise? I'm not going to bore anymore of you ... you've all heard the same thing from me ... yada, yada, yada ...... the park still sucks 2001 or 2006. GEEZ .. FOR LOVE OF GOD .. get with the frikin program ... lets get some more projects going ... NO MORE TALK FROM YOU DISNEY! Let's see some action! Quit the whack'n .. and get crack'n!
Originally Posted By gadzuux You make plenty of good points, but I think you might give too much weight to dining and merch. Neither of these make a theme park. First is the attractions, second is the overall atmosphere. DCA failed on both counts. Good luck with taking this same approach to DL. From my perspective, DLs 'now' is the hands down winner to 'then'. But maybe you see it differently.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>You make plenty of good points, but I think you might give too much weight to dining and merch. Neither of these make a theme park.<< I respectfully disagree. There are three components that make up a successful theme park: attractions, shopping, and dining. Atmosphere simply describes the binding element that should unite all of these. The DCA of 2001 placed much too great an emphasis on dining and shopping. The decidedly light attraction list created the impression that the park was all about shops and restaurants. All three must be present, but guests must never be aware of it. The comments about the amazing merchandising program didn't mention one odd thing. The people in charge failed to recognize what would be popular. There was an incredible amount of Super Star Limo merchandise, geared to all ages. Available items ranged from radio controlled cars to kitschy picture frames. Grizzly River Run had any number of bear themed items, despite the fact that no bears appeared anywhere in the attraction. There was also a number of rather baffling retro-themed items advertising things that didn't actually exist. (They were beautiful and well designed, though.) Meanwhile, Soarin' Over California was represented by a pin, a propeller beanie, and a shirt. The merchandising program was meticulously planned and executed. Based on projected attendance figures, shops were designed, product lines were established, and enough items were ordered that no section of any shop would ever run low on inventory. (I attended seminars where these facts were proudly trotted out.) It is obvious that the people in charge really understood retail, but didn't understand theme parks. Entertainment was another major clinker. In their desire to uniquely position DCA, Disney went out of their way to create entertainment that was hip and edgy. In public forums representatives actually said that they did not want "Disney style" entertainment. It was only with great reluctance that the Disney characters were allowed to "vacation" at DCA. The odd mix of mimes, street dancers, pavement artists and tumblers failed to catch on with a public that had 40+ years of specific expectations from a Disney theme park. While I applaud the effort to offer a different experience, I still deplore that rather arrogant manner in which it was thrust upon an unwilling public. The DCA of 2006 is, as far as I am concerned, simply the DCA of 2001 with the more troubling elements removed. The attraction count has been raised slightly. The food options are poor. The merchandise is simply a clone of what is readily available across the esplanade. The chaotic organization of the park has not been improved in any way by the rather hastily improvised additions. I didn't intend to sound so negative, but it's hard to not do so when describing the ultimate failure that is Disney's California Adventure.
Originally Posted By cheesybaby Imagine if you will a DCA with 2001 dining and merchandise but with 2006 attraction count. Millionaire still open with shows every hour. Aladdin in the Hyperion but Eureka on the parade route. Monsters has replaced SSL. Current Animation exhibit line-up (but without that horrid mall directory sign inside). SOB or Playhouse Disney, either way - take your pick. I enjoyed DCA in 2001 and I enjoy it today, but the scenario above would be better than either. I know exactly the merchandise tang is talking about - the retro-style poster of the old-time Soarin' plane flying past Grizzly Peak is framed and hangs on my son's wall. The upscale merch in "Treasures from Paradise" was stunning - and not a single T-shirt. And don't even get me started on the terrible decline in food options. DCA's food options used to be vastly superior to DL's (H&D where are you?!), but today it is the opposite. Add Midway Madness and a nighttime lagoon show to the combo 2001/2006 DCA above and that would be a great park IMO.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "The DCA of 2001 placed much too great an emphasis on dining and shopping. The decidedly light attraction list created the impression that the park was all about shops and restaurants. All three must be present, but guests must never be aware of it." I think this is the most accurate and succinct critique of DCA I have ever read.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>"The DCA of 2001 placed much too great an emphasis on dining and shopping. The decidedly light attraction list created the impression that the park was all about shops and restaurants. All three must be present, but guests must never be aware of it."<< I'll second Hans. An excellent point. >>, but rather because the public wasn’t ready for egg rolls and Wolfgang puck in a theme park. Food is one of only two things I’d ever agree were better than Disneyland when it opened in 2001, and the other being… << (Great post Tang.) I think this is what the problem was. The food WAS good, but I don't think it would have been successful even with a killer attraction lineup. Both Mondavi and Puck's were more suited for a Downtown Disney environment. I always thought that if they were willing to clone 3d movies why couldn't they clone eating establishments like Prime Time or Sci Fi. I think those locales would have been much more successful with the DL crowd even with miserable DCA attractions. A good mixture might have been Mondavi, Sci Fi in Hollywood, and Prime Time at the Pier.
Originally Posted By disneywatcher >> I always thought that if they were willing to clone 3d movies why couldn't they clone eating establishments like Prime Time or Sci Fi. << That would have required a bit of logic -- creative or otherwise -- and practical know-how, which obviously were lacking in the thinking of the brilliant people responsible for DCA. Truly a comedy of errors.
Originally Posted By liveforvacations I always find the discussion of DCA so interesting and I think everyone makes good points. What strikes me as familiar of all the posts, and please correct me if I am wrong, is that it sounds like all of you are frequent visitors of DCA! I have spent time in DCA on three separate vacations-in October of 2001, in May of 2003 and in December of 2005. Therefore, that does not make me much of an expert but it does give a different perspective. I would definitely say that that DCA of today is better than the DCA of 2001 but it still needs a lot of improvement. DCA has definitely improved on the attractions-Flik's Fun Fair for the little ones and the Tower of Terror for the older ones for example. As for the entertaiment-Aladdin is one of the reasons we go to DCA. We don't want "cutting edge", we want "Disney" entertainment. We never saw Eureka but absolutely love the Electric Light Parade and are very disappointed that this parade only runs part of the year. Block Party Bash is unmemorable and a little annoying. We enjoy doing the character meal at Ariel's Grotto. Based on my family's experiences and other people I have spoken to, it is my opinion that vacationers care about attractions and entertainment the most. We don't have time to sit around eating meals, unless they involve characters, or to shop as we would rather go on rides and watch parades and shows which is what we paid admission for. Dining and shopping is secondary! Not to mention that you can dine and shop in Downtown Disney and not pay admission! DCA is getting the day we used to spend at another place, such as Knott's. Just some thoughts from a person who loves Disney but does not get to be a frequent visitor!
Originally Posted By Zwitek I am admittedly a bit of a food snob, so when someone refers to Park food as "excellent" my eyes roll and I have to force myself to actually read the rest of the material presented. Park food is often much worse than anything one could find at a fast food joint. Burgers are often cold, on untoasted buns, with something that might pass for cheese at a Sizzler. Fries are more like something that was baked, and not all the way at that. I could literally go on for days about Park food. Not my first choice but if I was going to eat park food, I'd walk out the gate and eat at ESPN or Rainforest. Don't get me wrong, I don't consider those choices fine dining, but at least it's a step up from what is served at the majority of the park's restaurants. Dining is my least important reason for park enjoyment. It's about attractions, ambience, magic, shopping, and dining LAST. I will say though, that the Cove Bar is one place I will actually willingly visit for food. Their Lobster Nachos are not only edible, but actually quite good even for regular restaurants. Of course, I did have a few Jameson's prior to eating, so maybe it was the Whiskey that made them so good..... DCA really was (less so now) restaurants and shopping at opening. Now I can at least go and see Monsters Inc.. The Muppets, Bugs Life, Tower of Terror, and Soarin' before heading back to Disneyland. DCA still has a long way to go before it ever becomes more to me than a place to kill 2 hours and have some Whiskey and Nachos.
Originally Posted By tangaroa UPDATE: So it seems I have angered the gods with all my postin, since a visit to DCA yesterday revealed that the menu at Cocina Cucamonga in Pacific Wharf had been slashed nearly in half. Now they only serve tacos and burritos, beef, chicken or vegetable. The carne asada is gone, the fish is gone, and the nachos are gone. Now I can understand if they were eliminating menu options to offer new items, but it just seems like these items were removed with no replacement to save money. Somewhat disappointing. Sorry if this information was previously known, as I hadn't been to DCA for a long time and had no idea. Just a little peeved that more of my favorite food options at DCA have gone the way of SuperStar Limo. >I am admittedly a bit of a food snob, >so when someone refers to Park food as >"excellent" my eyes roll and I have to >force myself to actually read the rest >of the material presented. I’m a very simple kind of guy, and much prefer a cheeseburger or hot dog to the kind of meal that’ll cost you more and fit in the palm of your hand. Maybe in the grand scheme of things the cheap theme park food in Disneyland or DCA can’t stack up to the better fare out in the real world, but when I say that the food in DCA was excellent, I am comparing the food offered in other theme parks. Back in the old days it was definitely something that would have me going over to DCA just to eat. Cheeseburgers and fries at theme parks are always hit or miss though, simply because of the volume of food they make at these places. For some reason burgers and fries seem to be the most popular options at the parks, and I can tell you that over the years I’ve had some good burgers and some really bad burgers at the parks – which is part of the reason why DCA was such a good option food wise – because they tended to stay away from burger and fries model that dominated Disneyland and went on to try other things – Mexican food, Chinese food, Deli Sandwiches, Puck’s and Mondavi and even the hot dogs in DCA were much better than what you could get in DL. And where DCA did serve burgers they changed the model away from what DL was offering again. At Taste Pilots you can get a burger plain with a fully stock condiment bar to stack your burger the way YOU want it. At Disneyland you have to beg for pickles, and then you only get two in a little plastic cup. One has to wonder though if part of the early successes of DCA’s food department were not due in part to the park’s low attendance. Could taste pilots keep a fully stocked condiment bar if they had millions of more guests pouring through there a year? Could they keep the food fresh if there were more people there? Who knows.
Originally Posted By ChiMike No I think it was just an issue of cutting costs because demand was so low. I can understand why they couldn't support the dining they had. Which is too bad because it would be nice to see some of the unique options come back as the crowds increase.
Originally Posted By Aussie Obsession Our first visit to DCA was 2003, and followed with another the xmas of 2005/Jan 2006. We noticed small changes but nothing too drastic, so I'm not really one to comment on the comparison. What I do want to say is that whilst DCA is not DL, never will be ( as will nothing else either by the way), it is still a good day out with the kids. We spend around 10-12 days in the DLR each trip of which 2-3 are spent in DCA. We go there to break up the DL days, so when we go back to DL the next day, we're charged and ready to go again. And a benefit is, if you wish, as we do, after DCA closed, duck over and see Fantasmic and Fireworks AGAIN. I honestly feel that too much criticism is levelled at DCA. I agree that it is not overly attractive, and unlike DL, I wouldn't endure the 14hr flight just to visit it. But after that flight, I'm glad it's there, just to add some variation to the visit, without having to travel to Knotts or elsewhere around the gridlocked californian road system. For all it's flaws, I wish we had at least a DCA in Australia! Next time you're in the park grumbling and pointing out all the things that they do wrong, just pause for a brief moment and consider those of us who are just as passionate about the Disney experience but are unable to visit as frequently.
Originally Posted By Steve_CA_Adventure Here are some thoughts and observations on this topic. My first time to California Adventures was August 8, 2001 for Super Soap Weekend - West Coast version and I had gone a few days before to see the new park. To me it was great, the park was very large and spacious, the food selections were excellent and the attractions both new in technology and California Themed. At the time I saw great potentinal for the park. Soon after September 11, 2001 we read news that both Disneyland and CA Adventure were experiencing low attendance and soon Wolfgang Puck and Robert Mondavi pulled out of their association with CA Adventure. That Chirstmas, 2001 I went back and was disappointed with the Luminara show which was meant in a way to unite America though children's drawings and healing after a tragedy. Luminara was a failure A year later the Soap Opera Bistro restaurant closed despite the populaity of the restraurant and the tie in to ABC Soaps, so did Schwabs-Hollywood &Dine followed by the Lucky Fortune Cookery. Gone are Super Star Limo which was another good ABC tie in. Who Wants to Be a Millionare was a great hit but that soon closed and there are so many rumors of more closures or remodels in the future. It is too bad poor management, a national tradegy, and just plain poor marketings of a theme park caused CA Adventure to be a joke among many. I usually spend two full days there still and enjoy it just as much as Disneyland who I might add had financial problems when it first opened and managed to celebrate 50th years just recently because one Man had a dream and wanted it to suceed.
Originally Posted By nerdboyrockstar All your comments are extremely interesting. I was definitely aware of the criticism of DCA before I visited at the end of August. I came on here and read posts dating back to its 2001 opening and it wasn't pretty. But I definitely wanted to make up my own mind and I was excited to see the attractions that were exclusive to DCA, albeit very few. But I honestly have to say I didn't enjoy the park much at all. We DID enjoy, Aladdin, Tower of Terror, California Screamin'.. but we couldn't have imagined visiting the park in 2001 and not having Aladdin or Tower of Terror. In fact, I felt really bad for anyone who visited when it first opened. Well, maybe if you've never visited the parks in Orlando. But the park is full of clones, hand-me-downs, and isn't that pretty to look at. And the few original attractions I could ride at the local fair. Even Monster's Inc was so lackluster. I'm sorry but for a dark ride.. built by Disney.. when did it open? 2004? 2005? Either way, it's new.. and it seemed like the Fantasyland rides in Disneyland were more advanced. The fact that hardly none of the.. they're not AA's are they.. what are they called if they don't move? Statues? Either way, I felt like we were riding a Disney Store display. I think DCA learned their lesson well. I think there's nothing but improvements coming their way and hopefully in a few years, it'll be a much more enjoyable park.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >> I was definitely aware of the criticism of DCA before I visited at the end of August.<< >> I came on here and read posts dating back to its 2001 opening and it wasn't pretty.<< And pray-tell how did you do this? We sure have a lot of new members from October 23. Did I miss a big registration campaign that day?
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>We don't want "cutting edge", we want "Disney" entertainment.<< There it is in a nutshell. (And thank you for the thoughtful comments from a DCA "outsider.") The other nagging problem with DCA is that it was ordered up and delivered by people who, for the most part, DON'T LIKE DISNEY THEME PARKS. Actually, they didn't like anything that appealed to the masses. You know-- people like you and me. Michael Eisner was an excellent executive, but he was (and is) basically a snob. He approached Disney as an underperforming movie studio. Based on much that has been written and said over the years, he found the theme parks embarassing. DCA was intended to show that a Disney theme park could be as sophisticated and tasteful as the Park Avenue bred Michael Eisner. Guests would appreciate sitting on a sun struck patio, dining on nouvelle cuisine and sampling vintage wines, as the wind rustled through maturing grape vines. Contrast this with the decidedly plebian Walt Disney, who loved to down chili dogs at the Golden Horseshoe while laughing it up at the corny antics of Wally Boag. (Eisner deeply offended the management at Disneyland by ordering catered sushi to be delivered when he held a meeting at the Golden Horseshoe.) Paul Pressler had no comprehension of how to construct, manage, or maintain a show. But that is the model on which a theme park is built. Pressler was a dazzling retailer. The shops were handled with absolute attention to detail. But the "show" was so lacking in appeal that no one stayed around to browse in the fully stocked boutiques. Barry Braverman viewed himself as an educator. Indeed, after DCA's initial plummet in popularity, Braverman famously lamented that people simply didn't understand the park; they needed to be taught how to appreciate the subtle appeal of DCA. I believe that, deep down, the average guest, the people who have loved and supported the Disney theme parks for the last 50 years, felt very patronized by DCA. The overwhelming sense was that the whole thing was some sort of put on. Where there were "theme park" elements (Paradise Pier, for example), things were sort of dropped down with little care or attention to detail. It was as if the attitude was "this is good enough for the likes of THOSE people. Guests of Wolfgang Puck got murano glass, a snooty maitre 'd and a fully stocked bar. Theme park fans got a lot of bland stucco with off-the-rack carnival rides and games. Michael Eisner personally appealed to both Robert Mondavi and Wolfgang Puck, assuring them that DCA wouldn't be full of just loutish tourists pushing strollers full of screaming brats. No, it was going to be a smart, sophisticated park full of the "right kind of people." The miscalculation was serious, and still resonates to this day.
