Originally Posted By ArchtMig <a href="http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-sixflags23jun23" target="_blank">http://www.latimes.com/busines s/la-fi-sixflags23jun23</a>,0,5112975.story?coll=la-home-business Six Flags has announced that they are divesting themselves of 6 or 7 of their amusement parks and water parks, the largest and most famous being Magic Mountain here in Southern California. For years now, Magic Mountain has been in a battle with Cedar Point park in Ohio for the title of most coasters in one park. Just last month, Magic Mountain debuted their latest coaster, Tatsu. Magic Mountain is a very significant, world famous amusement park. But they've been experiencing a steady drop in attendance the last few years. Six Flags has done a terrible job in running the place. They have overemphasized huge, nasty looking thrill rides at the expense of themed attractions and family oriented experiences. Also, Magic Mountain has been overrun with roudy teens and gang bangers, further driving away their other customer base. My guess is the land could be sold to real estate developers for much more $$$ than it could to an operator who would take the park over and run it as an amusement park. I hate the thought of the park being scraped to bare earth, with those rides that are suitable for re-erecting elsewhere being sold off, and those that are not, just being cut up into scrap. I hate the thought of this unique attraction turning into yet another endless Santa Clarita Valley wasteland of houses and shopping centers. But there just aren't many companies that are able to take it over and run it the way it should be run, even if it could be bought out from under the tract home industry. My wish is, believe it or not, that Disney buy the place and run it the way it ought to be run. Clean the place up, theme it up really well (within reason... it is a "big iron" ride joint, after all), and let the company get their "big iron" jones out of their system with this place, and then take out some of the crap from DCA and turn Paradise Pier into a much more warm and inviting place, without the Maliboomer, the Orange Stinger, Mullholand Madness, etc. What do you all think about it...?
Originally Posted By trekkeruss Why spend money on another park when they could use those resources on DCA? That's what I think about it.
Originally Posted By ArchtMig 4 to 5 million attendance a year, maybe more if they package it right with extended day visits and shuttle busses... that's why.
Originally Posted By deadmentellnotales I'd be more impressed if Knotts berry or even Universal picked it up then you'd get more attendance off season passes as well as longer stays in the area. While neither of these places would put themeing into magic like Disney, they would turn it into something unique and enjoyable for a single day stay.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA I used to visit Six Flags Magic Mountain a lot when it first opened in the early 70s. Went on a Junior High school trip in 1975. Back in the day, it was a quaint, clean, well-run family-oriented park. That concept lasted about 10 years. Around 1980, things started to go south. And over time, Magic Mountain just slid into what it is today -- another one of those EXTREME roller coaster parks, with spotty theme-ing, sub-par staff people, and a clientele that ain't exactly family oriented. Last time I visited was Y2000, and along with the above, the last straw were the metal detectors at the entrance gate -- searching for guns no doubt. Plus the staff person searching my wife's purse with a wooden dowel. 'Why the wooden dowel?' I asked. 'I don't want to get poked with a hypodermic needle.' Nice. sorry if I'm repeating this tale, but I imagine other families feel the same why I do, and don't visit. If Six Flags Magic Mountain were to close tomorrow, it wouldn't be missed. It jumped the shark years ago. Disney should stay as far away from this property as they can.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<4 to 5 million attendance a year, maybe more if they package it right with extended day visits and shuttle busses... that's why.>> WDW has huge attendance numbers, and most seem to think that hasn't done much for quality there. So if Disney wants to chase after attendance numbers and bottom-line profits, maybe it's a good idea. But I don't think Disney should sacrifice quality anymore than it has. Forget about making MM a clean place; I'd rather they work on the already clean DCA and put their energy into the placemaking and so on.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA Hey, if Disney just lets Six Flags Magic Mountain die, it's one less SoCal attraction to have to worry about.
Originally Posted By BrnardM I'm with you there Jim. If rides like Tower of Terror draw controversy as being not family friendly, then I can't imagine the debate Disney's Magic Mountain would bring. Rides like Goliath and X cater to a certain crowd while Disneyland has its own crowd. The lines do cross, I'm a fan of both, but it wouldn't behoove Disney to run a place so contradictory to their established offerings. I really don't want to see Magic Mountain close. I enjoy getting thrown around at rediculous speeds, sampling some of the greatest coasters in the world. Even so, as many have said before, the park is filthy. I once was so horrified by one of the restrooms that I nearly called a manager. It seemed like this new guy who bought the Six Flags chain was going to make some positive changes but I suppose financially the park is reaping what it has sown.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan I can't see any logical reason for Disney to buy Magic Mountain. I have some fond memories of visiting it a few times in the 1970s, and I visited it again in 1990. The crowd during the day was families, but once the sun went down, it turned into a rough place due to some $5 after 5PM promotion they had going. Maybe Cedar Fair would consider it, knock this park back into shape somehow? I dunno. The park is a bit of a movie star in it's own right -- as Wally World in 'Vacation', in the movie 'Rollercoaster', the opening credits of the sitcom Step by Step, and I'm sure several others.
Originally Posted By Roger55 Let someone else buy it. Like mentioned, Disney money would be better spent plussing up the Anaheim resort. I don't know how MM could be cleand up by whomever buys it. It really has gone down hill and I know few people who still enjoy going there. It has such a bad rep for operations and unruley people that frequnet the place.
Originally Posted By ArchtMig Well, I just don't like Disney throwing away money on the crap they installed in Paradise Pier, and Dino-Rama at the Animal Kingdom Park. It's always been said that Disney feels it must do something to attract the "teen crowd". But the rides of Paradise Pier and Dino-Rama really cheapen the parks they are in, and in the case of Animal Kingdom, this junk cheapens what is perhaps the most beautiful Disney park of them all. I was just thinking that, by acquiring Magic Mountain, then Disney could concentrate all that junk in one park alone, and keep all the rest of the parks junk-free for everyone else that's not interested in exposed carney and big iron rides. As of now, Disney's place for big iron and carney is mostly DCA, and it's us poor saps here in SoCal who have been waiting for a Disney 2nd Gate for years who have to suffer with the schlock. You can bet that Disney won't be cloning Paradise Pier anywhere else... it's our baby, and we have to put up with it. I just wish most of that junk in Paradise Pier would be moved out entirely.
Originally Posted By oc_dean This is an AMUSEMENT park .. and Disney IS in the business of amusement parks. It's a Southern California icon .. no matter how people feel of "some" of the clientel that has been seen in the last decade or so. It wasn't always like that. I have many wonderful memories of trips between 1974 even up to the present. I think it can be a solid investment with time. Magic Mountain of the early 70s always reminded me of a "younger" Disneyland in the making. The Magic Pagoda being the one lonely indoor themed attraction .. I always dreamed then of the potential .. and beleive that potential is still there. I'd rather not see Valencia turn into one of hundreds of genericvilles with generic shopping centers .. and generic housing. An "anchor" to Valencia and Southern California since 1971 ........ I don't want to see it go the way of Lion Country Safari, Japanese Deer Gardens, Bush Gardens, and lately Movieland Wax Museum. Disney is always searching to push itself into the "extreme" attraction market with ToT, Rocket Rods, Mission:Space, etc. This would be a great way to offer to that demograph that want so bad .. by offering the extreme thrills .. and I'd love nothing more than for them to leave DL alone .. and stop trying to push for higher thrills in the "magic kingdom" park .. and have Disney's Magic Mountain to do all the extreme rides they want!
Originally Posted By Roger55 Is there a difference between a Theme park and an Amusement park? I always thought there was. I consider Disney parks to be theme parks, with the exception of the Paradise Pier area. The other "extreme" attractions Disney has been offering are heavily themed, like them or not. Would you abandon the concept of elaborate theming of the rides at MM if Disney took control? Isn't the lack of Disney magic one of the big reasons so many complain about Paradise Pier? Would people easily accept that a Disney thrill ride park won't have the fine theming of the park like they have come to expect from the other Disney parks? Food for thought... BTW, correct name was "Japanese Village & Deer Park". And one closed park not mentioned was Marineland.
Originally Posted By oc_dean I just thought of Marineland just before I rechecked this topic If Disney were to buy Magic Mountain ... a slow theming or should I say "placemaking" (the new catch phrase these days would take shape. Retransform Magic Mountain with some theming .. and add a few "indoor" themed attractions over time. I always thought "amusement park" is the universal term for any park with rides and attractions. Walt Disney took the same concept .. and gave it a "theme" - Hence: Theme Park. Rides and attractions that offer a story (a beginning, middle, and an end). There are "Amusement Parks" (Magic Mountain, Paradise Pier, Santa Monica Pier fun zone) .. and then there are "Amusement Theme Parks" (DL, Knotts, WDW, etc.)
Originally Posted By woody >>Should Disney buy Magic Mountain?<< No. Six Flags already ruined it. It once had a good mix of thrills and tame rides. Now, it is only about bigger and bigger roller coasters. Disney's plan should be about fixing the Disneyland Resort. There is a lot money to be spend with the land they have. They could have bought Knott's. That would be a more strategic buy. It would make more sense. It's location is just perfect. It's only 10 minutes away. Magic Mountain had a good run. It should be retired or sold to Cedar Fair for a better match.
Originally Posted By oc_dean Too many attractions in SoCal have been retired. Lion Country Safari, Marineland, Bush Gardens, ... and lately Movieland Wax Museum .. and now another "Hollywood" museum that darkbeer just posted to close soon. Magic Mountain is a huge place .. with more than just coasters. There's an infrastructure that includes more than just coasters. I see the potential there. Maybe in the end .. Disney won't buy it, .. and if they contemplated it .... why not? They had no problem dumping 900 mil into go.com .. not to mention all their other aquisitions they've had no problem obtaining. How's this any different??? The same park layout since 1971 still exists. And what's so hard about replacing a few coasters. It's not like they are encased some concrete buildings (ala Space Mountain) .. that are physically impossible to change or replace.
Originally Posted By disneywatcher >> And over time, Magic Mountain just slid into what it is today -- another one of those EXTREME roller coaster parks, with spotty theme-ing, sub-par staff people, and a clientele that ain't exactly family oriented. << As I read the following, I took solace in the fact that DCA at least adds to Southern Calif's line-up of superb theme parks, and Magic Mountain at least is superior to, well, Islands of Adventures. Uh-huh. And, recalling some postings from TP2000 a few months about his experiences at Tokyo Disneyland and DisneySea -- and how they compared with his experiences here -- the Disney parks in Anaheim have absolutely no "issues" with their own set of modern-day employees (and modern-day customers, too). Yes, times do change, and the mighty (or at least the originally less atrophied) have fallen: >>>>> Mark Shapiro, a former ESPN executive who is now Six Flags' chief executive, said in a conference call with investors Thursday that Magic Mountain was considered a candidate for sale partly because of its often rowdy teenage atmosphere....Unruly behavior by the teens, who gravitate to the giant dips and turns of Magic Mountain's 17 roller coasters, have driven families away from the theme park, Shapiro said. "Once you burn Mom, she is not rushing back," Shapiro said. Throughout Six Flags' 30 amusement and water parks, Shapiro said he wanted to reduce the company's reliance on "teens that drive our security problems...who loiter in the park, hate my no-smoking policy and don't spend money." <<<<<
Originally Posted By BrigmanMT 2 I think this is a better pet project for some billionaire or a collection of millionaires. This is certainly an entity that could be improved and plussed as long as good maintenance, operation, and the safe atmosphere can return. The park has become bloated, and if it reopens I think we can count on it only opening up one portion at a time (which would be smart). This would allow the additonal areas to be fixed up, improved and returned to their former splendor. As the park is now, it could run as a success with just X, Goliath, Batman, Collosus, Viper, Revolution, a big restaurant, a street of shops, and 2 water rides. The park just cannot operate at the size to which they allowed it to grow. It will never be a success if they continue to cheaply run the coaster systems with just one train at a time. The gang members must be kept out, and the food must be edible and less roach infested. The pathways need to have better circulation and the trees need to provide some protection in the hideous queues. Heck the Wally World corporation should take the park over. I once saw a documentary about a crazy family that featured a park just like Magic Mountain. They seemed to be having fun. If the Warner Brothers franchise deal would transfer over to a new owner, this could be a fantastic buy. Imagine total access for a theme park empire to the DC characters. That would be imcredible. Right now the Looney Toons are about as misused as the Muppets, but their time may return again someday soon. If I was a billionaire I would try my luck at turning this park into a profitable venture. A neat move would be to see this park turn into a testing ground for some amuesment company. That would keep the attractions fresh and exciting while helping to get rid of some of initial costs. Excuse me, now I have to go play Roller Coaster Tycoon 2 and institute the above changes.
Originally Posted By BrigmanMT 2 "Throughout Six Flags' 30 amusement and water parks, Shapiro said he wanted to reduce the company's reliance on "teens that drive our security problems...who loiter in the park, hate my no-smoking policy and don't spend money." How can you loiter in an amuesment park? The reason money isn't spent is because the atmosphere is crap. Teenagers account for a large percentage of dollars spent in the entertainment field all over the country. Six Flags is just not offering the right merchandise or atmosphere. The constant $15 entry fee they have to charge doesn't help much.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <The same park layout since 1971 still exists. And what's so hard about replacing a few coasters. It's not like they are encased some concrete buildings (ala Space Mountain) .. that are physically impossible to change or replace.> You know, oc_dean, I hear the nostalgia in your post, and I feel for you. Thing is, the name 'Six Flags' has already been tainted. And to try and change it to 'Disney's Magical Mountain of Fun' or whatever they might try and do, would be for naught. The damage has already been done. Six Flags has the connotation of a cruddy amusement park with a seedy atmosphere. It's like trying to change the image of a cruddy neighborhood. You're not going to get much by changing the name of some squalor filled, inter-city neighborhood to 'Shiny-Happy-ville.' You might be able to throw some money on it, but after the initial thoughts and feelings die off, it'll still be the same, cruddy inter-city neighborhood. And why would Disney want to resurrect an old park that would just fraction its core business of trying to get people to stay in Anaheim? It just doesn't make sense to me.
