Originally Posted By Malin So I couldn't help having a quick look at the test run LaughingPlace has posted on its website for World of Colour. Only caught a couple of minutes but already this show is shaping up to be very special. In fact so special that I'm starting to question if DisneySea adding Fantasmic is such a good idea. While I'm certain without question Fantasmic will be a hit and I'm sure will be presented on a grand scale, that no night time DisneySea show has seen before, World of Colour looks rather impresive and I know it will connect with the audience in a big way, possibly more so than Fantasmic. So do you think an updated version of Fantasmic is going to cut it against World of Colour a spectacular that is designed to put DCA on the map, or is the Tokyo Disney Resort making a mistake in not giving World of Colour a chance !
Originally Posted By Roger55 Seeing that all we know about TDS Fantasmic! is from a press release and concept artwork that was releases, shouldn't the question really be "are we making a mistake in not giving Fantasmic! at TDS a chance?".
Originally Posted By Malin In a way we already are giving Fantasmic that chance. I just question if the Resort is picking the right show. As a paying Tokyo Disney Resort Guest and fan, its important to me that the park offers us the best shows, without question Fantasmic has always been up there, but will this new version for DisneySea really be better than World of Colour which has been in development for some time at DCA.
Originally Posted By Roger55 WoC uses state of the art special effects, projections and audio for the show. Those of us who frequent TDR know how the Japanese Guests absolutely love the costumed characters, so a character based show makes sense to me. And if they add some of the cutting edge special effects to go along with the characters, I think that would be the best of both worlds for the Japanese Guests.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Seeing that all we know about TDS Fantasmic! is from a press release and concept artwork that was releases, shouldn't the question really be "are we making a mistake in not giving Fantasmic! at TDS a chance?". >>> No - I think it makes much more sense to compare a YouTube video of a work-in-progress run-through to a pre-announced show with absolutely no details available and start drawing conclusions as to how they've made a mistake. Seriously, as an example, take Dreamlights vs the standard MSEP. I don't think any press release or YouTube video can adequately portray just how much better Dreamlights is, and that it takes the MSEP concept to a whole new level. But if someone that's never seen it in person is pre-dispositioned to have a sour attitude about it, it's certainly quite easy to do so.
Originally Posted By Malin *** No - I think it makes much more sense to compare a YouTube video of a work-in-progress run-through to a pre-announced show with absolutely no details available and start drawing conclusions as to how they've made a mistake. *** Thats all well writing that but no one is coming to that conclusion. World of Colour was originally proposed for DisneySea, and that makes it fair to discuss if shelving it is a good idea or not. The verdict is certainly out on the Fantasmic show and will be until 2011, but we are starting to see more and more come to light on the World of Colour show, so lets discuss if this show would of been a good show for the park or not, and not try and insinuate things. You will find most people want to discuss both shows because we are genuinely excited, not sour at the out come of having two new night time shows at two different Disney parks. And I see nothing wrong in doing a bit of arm chair imagineering, and thinking if this show would of been a good fit for DisneySea or not. The OLC obviously at the start thought the show had potential, and World of Colour was the original option for a new show. *** Those of us who frequent TDR know how the Japanese Guests absolutely love the costumed characters, so a character based show makes sense to me. And if they add some of the cutting edge special effects to go along with the characters, I think that would be the best of both worlds for the Japanese Guests. *** In many ways you are right, Characters are a hit at the Resort. But do you think the many of Japanese Guest visiting DCA over the upcoming years, will likely watch World of Colour and criticise the show for having no characters. I honestly feel a show providing its actually good from a creative point of view, could survive and be just as strong as something like Fantasmic. Either way I guess its a bit early for this discussion, but as a Disney Parks fan I'm more happy to see both DCA and TDS getting two spectacular new shows, both worked on by Steve Davison, one of the few guys in Imagineering who delivers and brings us something new and exciting every time that doesn't leave fans disappointed.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***In many ways you are right, Characters are a hit at the Resort. But do you think the many of Japanese Guest visiting DCA over the upcoming years, will likely watch World of Colour and criticise the show for having no characters*** I think that Japanese travelers, by and large, go to Anaheim and Orlando with few pre-conceived notions of how it "should" be, and enjoy it as an "American" experience. That is a far cry from what they might or might not expect from *their* Disney parks in Japan. Just 2 cents.
Originally Posted By Roger55 >>In many ways you are right, Characters are a hit at the Resort. But do you think the many of Japanese Guest visiting DCA over the upcoming years, will likely watch World of Colour and criticise the show for having no characters. << The number of Japanese Guests who do travel to the US parks is just a small fraction of a percentage of the total Guest base that makes up the target audience for TDR. As X says, Japanese that do visit the US parks do not all project their own desires and expectations they have of their home park on the US parks. Nor should their opinion be considered completly representative of the entire Japanese Guest base that frequent TDR. Similarly, it is my opinon that foriegn Guests to TDR should not expect OLC to be catering to their likes and desires, as they are not the target audience. This is why I don't agree with discussions that try to judge or critisize the decisions of Disney or OLC based on the perspectives and opinions of those not part of the target audeince. OF course everyone can hold their own opinions about Disney or OLCs offereings, but it is going too far to have the expectations that their opinion should be considered by Disney or OLC if they are not in the target audience.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Thats all well writing that but no one is coming to that conclusion. >>> I guess what I posted is a reaction to your saying: <<< I'm starting to question if DisneySea adding Fantasmic is such a good idea. >>> and <<< is the Tokyo Disney Resort making a mistake in not giving World of Colour a chance >>> Those statements taken literally are just asking questions, but it just seemed that your tone was already headed downhill as opposed to a neutral "let's talk about it" kind of thing. Certainly, future shows are just the kind of thing discussed around here.
Originally Posted By Malin *** This is why I don't agree with discussions that try to judge or critisize the decisions of Disney or OLC based on the perspectives and opinions of those not part of the target audeince. OF course everyone can hold their own opinions about Disney or OLCs offereings, but it is going too far to have the expectations that their opinion should be considered by Disney or OLC if they are not in the target audience. *** Who exactly is the Resorts target audience? Looking at the OLC's figures I would say its Female's aged between 18-39. I agree with what your saying to an extent, that it has to give priority to the majority of the Guest needs, but at the same time the Tokyo Disney Resort is still considered an International Disney Resort that does take Reservations outside Japan. So I do feel Guest including Westerners who visit do have the right judge or criticise the way OLC operates its park. According to the OLC's very own website 3.2% of Guest visit from overseas.
Originally Posted By Malin *** Those statements taken literally are just asking questions, but it just seemed that your tone was already headed downhill as opposed to a neutral "let's talk about it" kind of thing. Certainly, future shows are just the kind of thing discussed around here. *** I can see why words I say could be taken in the the wrong way. The intention of the thread is not to attack the Fantasmic Show in any way, but to question if World of Colour would of made a good show for DisneySea, now that more details from the show are starting to appear online.
Originally Posted By Roger55 >>> ... but at the same time the Tokyo Disney Resort is still considered an International Disney Resort that does take Reservations outside Japan. So I do feel Guest including Westerners who visit do have the right judge or criticise the way OLC operates its park. According to the OLC's very own website 3.2% of Guest visit from overseas. <<< I think you are making my argument for me. 3% foriegn Guests does not make it an international destination. And just because they do take reservations from internation Guests, that doesn't make it an international park. If we go by the figure you quoted, westerners make up only a fraction of the 3.2% of overseas Guests. The vast majority of overseas Guests are from China and other Asian countries. So westerners probably make up less than 1% of the total Guests. Sure, the less than 1% of westerners have the right to be critical. That's not my point. I just don't think it is realistic or reasonable to think that the opinions or desires of less tha 1% of the target audience are being given much consideration. How much do you think the US parks take into consideration the desires and opinions of Guests from Taiwan for instance, when deciding what shows or attractions to add to the US parks? If you go by the numbers, it's safe to say the US parks have far more foriegn visitors than TDR. I don't see the US parks specifically catering to Taiwanese Guest or any other demographic group of 1% or smaller. Would anyone really think that when US Disney Parks were considering the MK Fantasyland expansion, or the DCA overhaul, someone in the room said "Let's not forget to consider our Taiwanese Guests"? This may sound rediculous, but it is about the same expections as expecting OLC stopping to consider what their Guests from the USA or UK would think. I agree, anyone can be critical or have an opinion about what is being offered by OLC. My point is I really get the feeling you are over stating the influence and consideration westerners should be given by OLC when it comes to TDR.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Tokyo Disney Resort is still considered an International Disney Resort that does take Reservations outside Japan. So I do feel Guest including Westerners who visit do have the right judge or criticise the way OLC operates its park. According to the OLC's very own website 3.2% of Guest visit from overseas.*** Two points have occurred to me based on this comment... 1) just because a place accepts reservations from overseas hardly means they should feel obligated to accommodate special requests or requirements from foreign customers. When in Rome, and all that... So whether or not outsiders feel the need to judge or criticize the parks, it's not something the management really needs to worry about if the foreign contingents are exceedingly small (as they certainly are). 2) As you mentioned, 96.8% of the customers are Japanese. So obviously that's the main focus of ANY efforts towards guest satisfaction, any other side efforts would be nothing short of Bad Service (assuming such an effort would go against the wishes of the nearly 97% of visitors to the resort), relatively speaking. But even beyond that, 3.2% of the visitors are foreign tourists. But how does that percentage break down? In my experience there are TONS of Chinese visitors to TDR, and tons of Korean folk too (relatively speaking, of course). There are VERY few Westerners by and large, a mere trickle of folks ranging from Military Base families to backpacker types to friends of Japanese folks, but in any case the incredibly rare exception as far as park goers are concerned (CERTAINLY rare in comparison to that 3% or so that consists of mostly Chinese and Korean and other Asian customers). SO, why would they focus on what some random WESTERNER cares about? Where is the focus on the small fraction of Chinese customer? Or other Asian customer? Obviously their needs would come before any American or European straggler that happens through the gate, no?
Originally Posted By Mr X <---loves when elaborate retorts are written on top of each other, both saying the same thing but one hitting "send" a few minutes earlier If I'd waited just a few minutes longer before beginning my lengthy reply I'd have only to write "what Roger said".
Originally Posted By Roger55 I could call it plagiarism, but I know you don't type that fast X! Glad to have a corroberating opinion.
Originally Posted By Malin *** I think you are making my argument for me. 3% foriegn Guests does not make it an international destination. And just because they do take reservations from internation Guests, that doesn't make it an international park. *** I think this depends on what you consider to be a International park. I consider any park or Resort that promotes its product outside of its own country to be a park hoping to attract International visitors, not by how many Guest it recieves. The fact it only recieves 3.2 % overseas visitors is more an indication that it fails as an International Park. *** How much do you think the US parks take into consideration the desires and opinions of Guests from Taiwan for instance, when deciding what shows or attractions to add to the US parks? *** None but the US Parks also don't take into consideration the views of its regular Park Guest either. *** My point is I really get the feeling you are over stating the influence and consideration westerners should be given by OLC when it comes to TDR. *** Not at all, what did I write for you to get that impression. Going back over my original post I clearly state that it has to give priority to the majority of the Guest needs. Besides really how much influence any Guest has on how the parks operate is up for the Resort's Management team to decide on.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***The fact it only recieves 3.2 % overseas visitors is more an indication that it fails as an International Park.*** That's silly, based on how busy the place is. Obviously it's just not a big priority for them (if they suddenly lost ALL of their international customers, I'm quite sure they could make up the difference with a few heavily targeted promotions within Japan without breaking a sweat). If somehow the Tokyo parks were far less attended by the Japanese for whatever reason, I'm sure they'd put more effort into International sales. THEN we'd see whether or not they could be successful at such an effort. Til then, it's a rather silly point to try and make that they "fail" as an international destination.
Originally Posted By Roger55 >>I think this depends on what you consider to be a International park. I consider any park or Resort that promotes its product outside of its own country to be a park hoping to attract International visitors, not by how many Guest it recieves.<< I have never seen TDR being promoted or advertised in the US except for the obligatory link on the US Disney.com website. >>Not at all, what did I write for you to get that impression. (sic)<< Here they are... 1) "As a paying Tokyo Disney Resort Guest and fan, its important to me that the park offers us the best shows..." 2)"And I see nothing wrong in doing a bit of arm chair imagineering, and thinking if this show would of been a good fit for DisneySea or not. " 3)"So I do feel Guest including Westerners who visit do have the right judge or criticise the way OLC operates its park." The whole premiss of your post was to have us judge the decision of OLC to have their version of Fantasmic! over WoC. It wasn't stated as a simple discussion of which show we think will be a better show. >>... or is the Tokyo Disney Resort making a mistake in not giving World of Colour a chance ! << I know it may be hard for you to accept, but I just don't think the opinions of a minuscule few westerner Guests are going to have much of any impact on what decisions OLC makes regarding their park.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< >>Not at all, what did I write for you to get that impression. (sic)<< Here they are... >>> Malin, there seems to be quite a disparity between what you (claim to) think you wrote and what the rest of us are reading into your posts. And what we've quoted of yours seems rather straightforward in its meaning. Just sayin'. I think we'll definitely be able to have a more informed discussion about this once we've all seen WoC in person. But even then, we'd be comparing WoC with F! 1.0. Who knows what F! 2.0 for TDS will be like? I'll again draw the analogy between MSEP and Dreamlights - roll back the clock 10 years to a point where Dreamlights had just been announced. It would have been very easy to say "Hey, why don't they bring Fantillusion or Spectromagic to TDL - that would be an all-new experience, as opposed to simply re-tooling what's been here before?" But it's not really possible to judge until the final product is in place. So, I suspect we really won't be able to make informed comments until F! is in place (next year?) at TDS - then we'll be able to compare it to WoC. Until then, let's armchair engineer, speculate, and comment all we want. But comments like "They're making a mistake" at this point are bound to elicit a response from someone. After all, it is a discussion board.
