Originally Posted By melekalikimaka <a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0" target="_blank">http://www.timesonline.co.uk/p rintFriendly/0</a>,,1-2-1798944-2,00.html Excerpt: RELIGIOUS belief can cause damage to a society, contributing towards high murder rates, abortion, sexual promiscuity and suicide, according to research published today. According to the study, belief in and worship of God are not only unnecessary for a healthy society but may actually contribute to social problems. _________________________ I don't believe this theory but thought it was "interesting".
Originally Posted By Disneyman55 Hmm, is this an acceptable thought process? Sounds like it came straight out of Karl Mark, "opiate of the masses" and all that jazz. Nice to see that now I am unnecessary. Where's the outrage?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip My problem with the theory is that it does not take into account the many other factors that influence crime and anti-social behavior in society. I would say the following have FAR more to do with the state of the U.S. than its religious beliefs. 1) Excessive rights given to those accused of crimes 2) High level of gun ownership in the U.S. 3) Huge emphasis on consumerism There are many others, but I think you see what I mean.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<2) High level of gun ownership in the U.S.>> With all due respect, guns don't kill people do. Also their is no such thing as an illegitimate child, just illegitimate parents.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<With all due respect, guns don't kill people do.>> But guns make it a lot easier for people to kill people. I know... you've got your danged constitutional right to have them and I'm not going to argue that. I just think that the fact that the U.S. has the highest gun ownership rate in the world AND the highest murder rate in the world is more than coincidence.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I'm sure with all the terrorist attacks going on in Isreal, the Gaza Strip and else where in the middle east we don't have the highest murder rate.
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder <a href="http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_cap" target="_blank">http://www.nationmaster.com/gr aph-T/cri_mur_cap</a> Colombia is 31, we're #24, Israel et al not in the top 25.
Originally Posted By schoolsinger TRUE Christianity does not lead to violent or sexually immoral behavior. Cafeteria Christianity does. Too many “Christians†are picking and choosing only to follow parts of the Bible they want to follow.
Originally Posted By RC Collins Freedom and liberty allow for a high crime rate. If you believe that people are granted rights and freedoms by a God, then you permit them to screw up and then suffer the consequences. In a society where the philosophy is that there is no God or at least no God involved in humanity, then the government is what gives rights and takes them away. The government becomes totalitarian and it is easy to stop crime when people have no privacy or other rights, are presumed guilty, can be sent to Siberia, forcibly sterilized, etc. It's also easy to bury the "bad" news.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer >>With all due respect, guns don't kill people do.<< I always thought it was the bullets.
Originally Posted By jdub >>With all due respect, guns don't kill people do.<< But not with synthetic kitchen sponges.
Originally Posted By FaMulan K-Tom, you're in Kennesaw, GA, right? Now, before you get defensive, I agree with you in your premise. Guns do not kill people, people kill people. Killers will find a way to kill if guns were not available and even if the US totally banned guns, the only people who would not have guns would be the law-abiding citizens who have a right to defend themselves. Criminals will always be able to get firearms. When my husband was teaching me firearms safety, he read to me a story from an NRA publication about Kennesaw, GA. Proper and responsible firearms ownership is not only encouraged there, it is required, I believe. Kennesaw, GA has a very low violent crimes rate as a result because the criminals know there's at least one firearm in every house and a responsible owner who is encouraged to defend his/her property with it. As for the rest of the topic, I believe parents should take more responsiblity for the moral upbrining of their children. In my view religion has very little to do with that other than to teach parables, and a lot of what I'm hearing from religion in general today would have those who started them shaking their heads in dismay at all the hubris (overweaning pride). Parents must teach their children the Golden Rule and what it takes to be a good citizen. Parents need to partner with teachers to get those messages across in the classroom and give teachers back their power of corporal punishments (nothing violent, but moreso than just time outs).
Originally Posted By MrToadWildRider >>Kennesaw, GA has a very low violent crimes rate as a result because the criminals know there's at least one firearm in every house and a responsible owner who is encouraged to defend his/her property with it.<< That sounds like NRA B.S. to me. Guns do not stop crime. The thing a lot of people fail to realize is the people who get their guns legally and follow all of the safety rules and the neww laws the Government imposes are NOT the problem. They probably contribute to gun-related ACCIDENTAL deaths and what not but typically guns used in the commission of a crime are illegal. But that does not mean that if everyone had a gun in their house there'd be less crime as implied above, there'd probably be as much and on a more serious scale. People who get caught up in the heat of moment who are willing to start throwing punches and result in an A&B would probably start taking shots if a gun were available to them turning it from an A&B to a murder. There's no easy answer to what causes crime. I think religion may have certain things to do with levels of crime but it surely isn't the sole cause. There are so many factors youcan't point to one and say it's the cause. I'd say the biggest causes of crime are socio-economic status and the environment in which the person lives (parents, education, friends) which leads back to the SES in many ways.
Originally Posted By FaMulan From the Kennesaw, GA website: "City of Kennesaw 1981(Pre-Gun Law) Population: 5,242 Burglaries: (per 100,000 pop): 1,026 Total Part 1 Crimes: (per 100,000): 4,332 City of Kennesaw 1982(Post Gun Law) Population: 5,308 Burglaries: (per 100,000 pop): 665 Total Part 1 Crimes: (per 100,000): 3,135 City of Kennesaw 2002 Population: 22,664 Burglaries (per 100,000): 264 Total Part 1 Crimes (per 100,000): 2,345 U.S. Average 2002 Burglaries (per 100,000): 746 Total Part 1 Crimes (per 100,000): 4,118 City of Kennesaw 2003 Population: 25,183 Burglaries (per 100,000): 353 Total Part 1 Crimes (per 100,000): 2,438 U.S. Average 2003 Burglaries (per 100,000): 740 Total Part 1 Crimes (per 100,000): 4,063 Summary: Although the population of the City of Kennesaw and surrounding area has increased dramatically since 1981, on a per capita basis crimes rates were actually lower in 2002 than in 1981. It is also noted that crimes involving the use of a firearm are less than 2% of the total crimes reported. Note: To control for population differences and make descriptions and make comparisons between jurisdictions more accurate and meaningful, index crimes are reported at the rate per 100,000 persons. Part 1 crimes consist of: Murder, Non-Negligent Manslaughter, Rape, Robbery, Aggravated Assault, Burglary, Larceny, Auto Theft and Arson." <a href="http://www.kennesaw.ga.us/index.asp?NID=137" target="_blank">http://www.kennesaw.ga.us/inde x.asp?NID=137</a> So, it's not NRA bull.
Originally Posted By thenurmis There has been this ideal that the high number of deaths in the US is directly the result of you "love" for guns. The concept that because there are a large percentage of people with fire arms, they will be more likly to use them. I'm not too sure that this is correct. The US is not the only country that has a high percentage of "guns in homes". To my knowlage Canada ( land of the lib's) has a fairly close ratio of people to guns ( I am not 100% on the number)yet our murder rate is far lower. I don't think that it is the result of religion, but more the thought that the best recourse to a stick is a larger stick, and the willingness to use it.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Yes FaMulan you are correct, Kennesaw GA definately has a MANDATORY gun law. And yes violent crime plummeted in Kennesaw when the mandatory gun law passed. The funny thing is that there is a Mall in southern Cobb County called the Galleria built during the 80. Cobb County Police Dept had always maintained a police precint in that Mall until the city of Atlanta began running their public transportation system ( MARTA ) to that Mall. The crime went through the roof and it was so dangerous that the county ended up pulling the police precinct out as it was not safe enough for even the police. We have a lot of crime particularly violent crime here. Intresting factoid I heard from one of my police friends this past weekend is that Switzerland also has a MANDATORY gun law which states "that avery able bodied male in each household will own a gun". <a href="http://www.kc3.com/editorial/responsible_citizens.htm" target="_blank">http://www.kc3.com/editorial/r esponsible_citizens.htm</a>
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Cobb County Police Dept had always maintained a police precint in that Mall until the city of Atlanta began running their public transportation system ( MARTA ) to that Mall. The crime went through the roof and it was so dangerous that the county ended up pulling the police precinct out as it was not safe enough for even the police. >>> This seems a bit hard to believe. I'd like to see a police spokesman say that they closed a substation because it was too dangerous for the police. Unless the police also just stopped responding to violent crime at that mall, this makes absolutely no sense.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<This seems a bit hard to believe. I'd like to see a police spokesman say that they closed a substation because it was too dangerous for the police. Unless the police also just stopped responding to violent crime at that mall, this makes absolutely no sense.>> You people are absolutely unbelieveable. I was a cop for six years. My partner was a cop for 16 years with Cobb County PD. I swear you wouldn't believe anything out of the mouth of Jesus if he came down and said it.
