Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan The Bush Administration protects one of its own. Nice accountability from a president whose approval ratings are about to go lower than anyone thought possible thanks to this latest slimy move. Before anyone jumps on with the expected "Wull, yeah, but Bill Clinton pardoned terrible people at the end of his presidency...." yes, he did. And people here, even supporters, let him have it for that. So save it. This administration is simply the worst, most poltically tone deaf I have ever seen in my lifetime, bar none. Pa. Thet. Ick.
Originally Posted By CrouchingTigger Really, I mean, how could you just not like a guy named "Scooter"?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan So Scooter, Cheney's boy, will have a fine to pay and be on probation, but he won't go to jail. For lying during an investigation into this administration. President Bush's last 373 supporters on earth applaud the move.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I'm fine with the sentence being commuted. I never particularly like seeing mid-level folks taking the fall for the guys higher up. Cheney is the one who deserves jail for this thing; not Scooter. As far as I'm concerned, people should NEVER be sent to jail for lying during politically motivated investigations.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan What about when it is an investigation of a politically-motivated crime?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip That depends on what your definition of is, is. ;-) Yes, some of those things need to be prosecuted. But I think investigation and prosecution of political figures should have to go through a bi-partisan vetting process. Let's face it; many of these investigations are entirely politically motivated and end up ruining lives and careers for nothing. A great example of this was the Whitewater investigation.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 But let's remember that this investigation occurred under a Republican-controlled congress. And the CIA asked that it be done.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 I didn't know this thread was here, so I posted this in another one: The $250,000 fine remains in place, but I'm guessing his legal defense fund has raised many times that, so essentially he won't be out a dime. The only other thing he gets is 2 years probation (probation against lying to a grand jury again??), so he basically gets nothing. The contempt for the rule of law this administration continually demonstrates is demonstrated again.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder My God, let the impeachment party begin. This is the last straw. What this does is tell everyone that members of this Administration have carte blanche to break any law they see fit, because while a conviction might stay on your record, you'll never do the time. What the hell does Bush think we have a judiciary system for if he so blatantly disregards it when it does its job? How in hell can a decision like this be defended by rational people? Note I said rational, because the usual gang of sycophantic idiots will crow over this as usual. Bush can now officially go to hell, and take Cheney with him.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder RT, this was an independent investigation done by a Republican appointed prosecutor. If this was partisan, it was slanted towards them. Nixon tried to do the same thing by firing Archibald Cox in the infamous Saturday Night Massacre. Note that it backfired. Here, Bush waited until the results were in and then pulled the plug. I've never been more ashamed to have someone lead this country as this ignorant jackass.
Originally Posted By jonvn All I can say is thank goodness. I'm sending my check to the Scooter defense fund today. I just hope he can find a job now. I hear walmart gives ex-cons a chance. Do you think he can get a job there? I would hate to think of him having to go without a job.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder This is f'n unbelievable. I can't even describe the anger this generates. He just guaranteed a Democrat gets the White House, unless every Republican running completely distances himself, which would only further demonstrate how corrupt this decision is. Impeach his ass, now.
Originally Posted By jonvn On what grounds? He has the legal right to do this. It's just that NOT EVEN NIXON did this. Impeachment was my first thought, but he's not committed a crime. So, it's just more arrogance. He hasn't really guaranteed a Dem. If the dems nominate Hillary or Obama, they lose anyway.
Originally Posted By jonvn "I'm proud to be an American, 'cause at least I know I'm free..." Yes, pride. It's what I feel right now.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "He hasn't really guaranteed a Dem. If the dems nominate Hillary or Obama, they lose anyway." I disagree. I don't want either one of them, but Clinton is the more experienced and electable of the two. Obama for some reason has generated a huge war chest, so somebody likes the guy. But here's the thing- Bush just made every single democratic candidate that much more attractive. As for grounds for impeachment, I'll admit I'm no expert in the area, but I'd start with malfeasance.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Here's a good place to start. <a href="http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060130/holtzman" target="_blank">http://www.thenation.com/doc/2 0060130/holtzman</a> High crimes and misdemeanors, the author says, is an archaic and misleading term.
Originally Posted By jonvn You can't be impeached on malfeasance. The law is "high crimes and misdemeanors." So, they have to find a law he broke. The House basically indicts, and the trial is in the Senate to convict. He broke no law doing this...so, there you go. I would love to see Hillary win. But, she will not. I would vote for her. I just don't think most of America will. Neither will they vote for Obama. He's already falling behind in the polls. Three people now have said to me this guy needs to be impeached. I mean, this is from fairly level headed individuals who aren't into politics. What this does show is that this Admin feels it is above the law. That anyone can do anything, and not have to worry about that pesky old court thingy... But it'd be a hoot to get rid of both Bush and Cheney, then we'd have nancy Pelosi as President. Ha!
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder 'So, they have to find a law he broke. The House basically indicts, and the trial is in the Senate to convict. He broke no law doing this...so, there you go." read the link I provided. Malfeasance might actually be an umbrella term for his overall actions.
Originally Posted By friendofdd I have serious doubts that this action by the president has changed any voter's mind as to how they plan to vote next election.
Originally Posted By alexbook As Gerald Ford famously explained, an impeachable offense is anything a majority of the House of Representatives wants it to be. <a href="http://www.ford.utexas.edu/library/speeches/700415f.htm" target="_blank">http://www.ford.utexas.edu/lib rary/speeches/700415f.htm</a> The catch is that there's no way a majority of the current House of Representatives is going to agree on anything. Despite my dislike of this Administration, I'm actually not in favor of impeachment. Impeachment should be rare, and only used in extreme situations. There are plenty of less extreme remedies available to Congress.
