Originally Posted By Mr X So I have a client who asked me for some help with her resume (in English). She told me that they are asking for a resume AND a C.V. (she's applying for a job abroad). I was a bit taken aback (I always figured it would be resume OR C.V., depending on the position), and all I could figure was that they were looking for a general resume along with a C.V. of her acupuncture experience (she's an acupuncturist, obviously). So I suggested that she write out the resume as more of a list (including high school, part time jobs etc...) along with her acupuncture experience of course but then focus the C.V. ONLY on the acupuncture side along with some additional information (exactly what sort of school program she followed, particulars about her job etc...). Does this sound right? The downside is she's quite young, so her C.V. consists of only THREE things...her school training (3 year program), passing the certification test, and the ONE acupuncturist job she has held (and currently holds) so far. Resume-wise, she has a bit more...including high school and a couple of jobs she held prior to entering the three year program. I'm asking here because I'm afraid I might be missing something and giving her unsound advice about how to put the two together. Should she ignore the request and simply provide one all-encompassing resume? Or any other thoughts? Any thoughts would be much appreciated. I'm meeting her again in 2 days in order to help her further flesh out her credentials and assist in putting the package together. (in case any of this seems weird, lately I've been doing some English as a second language teaching, and along with that I get requests such as this from time to time...helping put together applications, preparing for interviews, etc...)
Originally Posted By mousermerf A resume should just a job/education/skills list, so compared to the CV it should be the cliff notes. The CV should detail where she learned what skills and how, relevant extracurricular, etc..
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Think of the resume as a sales pitch, why she should get the job she is applying for and the CV as the evidence base. The key thing in both is to ensure it is more than - had this role, took part in that activity. It should be about why she made a difference? What outcomes has she achieved etc.
Originally Posted By Mr X Yeah, I understand all that but it's not an executive position she's looking for...as she said, she's a medical professional. I asked her to describe a "special patient" or some above and beyond sort of occurrence, and her answer was "I preform the diagnosis and procedure to the best of my ability the same way each and every time". I guess maybe this is a different sort of deal compared to normal "made a difference", "achieved such and such an outcome" sorts of CV's?
Originally Posted By Mr X btw, thanks to both of you guys for your excellent input! I feel I might have doomed this topic by putting it in WE (by accident). Not that there aren't smart people here, but there's certainly a limited number of folks and topics tend to sink to the bottom rather quickly if they don't include the words "Palin", "Obama", "Socialism", or" torture".
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I know what you mean X, but I have hired clinicians in my time too. They still need to stand out from the crowd, even in a technical or front line roll. How many patients worked with within a caseload? What are the outcomes on patients of her treatment (this is a huge hotbed for any medical positions in Europe). etc. Anything that will bring her out of a crowd of CVs and Resumes is really important when the Clinical Director/Head of Service is looking them over at 11 o'clock at night or 5 minutes between meetings. Trust me matey.
Originally Posted By Mr X Oh, absolutely. I know that you have lots of experience with this stuff (I almost titled this attn Davewas and SuperDry, in fact ), I'll see what I can do to help her. It's definitely tough for a young person with limited schooling and experience (obviously over the years you start to rack up achievements through seminars or unusual opportunities and stuff like that...I *think* she mentioned attending some seminar with some international experts so I'll revisit that and see if we can't include it in the CV). Thanks so much!
Originally Posted By SuperDry I wish I could offer advice, but I don't really have any. The only thing that comes to mind is that if someone is young and just starting out in a field, and is applying for a job commensurate with that level of experience, then the whole body of applicants will be in more or less the same situation (at least, those not overqualified), and the people doing the hiring must certainly be aware of this. Something should be done to make the resume and cv stand out among the others, but I wouldn't worry too much about a lack of all too many things. After all, establishing that she has a) the required training and credentials, and b) a couple years' experience using them in an entry-level position is about all that can be expected at that point in her life. I really don't know about the resume vs cv issue, as I've only dealt with the US, where it's pretty much just the resume. Having said that, there's the advice that I've heard about how to deal with a resume: - Standard practice: develop a resume, and send it to all the jobs you want to apply for. - Better practice: Write a cover letter specific to each position you're applying for, and attach it on top of the resume. - Best practice: Write a cover letter specific to each position, and customize the resume for each position, without necessarily making it look like the resume was customized. You want the person reading it to read the cover letter, know that you know all about their company and the position open, and why you're a great fit for it, and then turn to the next page and have the resume just happen to appear to fit like a glove, even though it may appear to be your boilerplate resume. Things for the cover letter to deal with are to make it clear that you know who the company is, what they do, how they fit into the industry, how you'd fit into the position and their company in particular, and what unique things you can bring to the position. It's kind of like a prelude to what you'd do in an interview: you just don't go into a job interview knowing about yourself and presenting it - you want to know as much about the company and the person interviewing you as possible and work that into the interview. That alone, separate from experience and qualifications, puts you ahead of a lot of others that will be applying. You'll have to figure out how to work this into a resume/cv situation.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***- Best practice: Write a cover letter specific to each position, and customize the resume for each position, without necessarily making it look like the resume was customized. You want the person reading it to read the cover letter, know that you know all about their company and the position open, and why you're a great fit for it, and then turn to the next page and have the resume just happen to appear to fit like a glove, even though it may appear to be your boilerplate resume.*** Good advice. And very easy to do these days with word processors (I can imagine back in the old typewriter (what's that!?) days, that would be time consuming and difficult...although certainly the person who did so back then must have assuredly landed the good jobs! (and still good advice today, to be sure!)
Originally Posted By SuperDry Regarding word processing, in a previous life, I used to review lots of resumes for engineering positions. I was shocked at just how many of them had glaring spelling, punctuation, and grammatical errors in them. In this day and age of word processing, it's likely that each resume was printed fresh from the computer, rather than duplicated from a master. As such, it's trivially easy to re-print something once an error is discovered. Here were these people, supposedly educated, needing a job, and applying for jobs that require attention to detail, and they could not get their resumes error-free. I still don't understand how it's possible that it happened as frequently as it did.
Originally Posted By Mr X That really is rather pathetic (and even with spell check and the rest, it's ALWAYS a good idea to ask a smart friend or three to proof-read it for you...assuming it actually matters to you). In the old days (when you created the thing and then just hit "copy" 100 times), it's a tad more understandable. Definitely not now however. (heck I even try to proof my LP posts as much as possible!) ***I still don't understand how it's possible that it happened as frequently as it did*** Education is a liability in todays America (aka the Sarah Palin Effect)? Just a guess.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***In the old days (when you created the thing and then just hit "copy" 100 times)*** Well, my writing style certainly reflects the personal computer age. What I meant in my head when I wrote that was "when you typed up the thing and then went down to the copy store for 100 copies". Or going back even further (hey, copy machines weren't around forever ya know!), you'd type up your resume. And then type it again. And again. And again. (I'm assuming that was probably the wife's job ) Makes me think Japan might be on to something. All resumes here (yes, even today) must be HAND WRITTEN! Talk about scary. NOBODY would get a job in America if they were being evaluated on their neatness of penmanship!
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 "Makes me think Japan might be on to something. All resumes here (yes, even today) must be HAND WRITTEN!" Wow, are you serious? That's definitely a way to analyze who you're hiring though. I mean, if you picked the ones you liked, and then had the handwriting analyzed. I realize that might be a bit too time consuming, but that's amazing that it's the rule in Japan. Can you imagine a doctor's CV/resume, LOL?
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< NOBODY would get a job in America if they were being evaluated on their neatness of penmanship! >>> For me, neatness isn't even the issue - it's legibility!
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Lol - I cannot believe the amount of errors I have seen on CVs over the years. Or people that think a full scale generic biography will land them an interview. No way. For me 2-3 pages max (for people with 10 plus years) and offer supplementary info if required. For young professionals starting out, extra curricular responsibilities, unusual skills or something else that might prove useful to the role are always good. Also, good references or testimonials always help too.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I learnt to type for a reason. In Japan, I would be in trouble. Lol As for LP, please do not judge my level of literacy on my LP posts (I know, I should take more time, proof read etc.)
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Wow, are you serious?*** Yes. Definitely true (I do believe it applies to just about ALL positions in Japan...everyone I've talked to has confirmed it though I would guess it might not apply to the highest of high up executive positions).
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Japanese résumés, unlike American résumés (and I assume other Western résumés), follow a rigid format. They sell special résumé paper here that is gridded into different categories. Applicants fill them out by hand in their prettiest handwriting and stick on a photograph of themselves*** <a href="http://jetresumes.blogspot.com/2010/01/japanese-resumes-blog-post-by-former.html" target="_blank">http://jetresumes.blogspot.com...mer.html</a>
