Originally Posted By Mr X Scary stuff right here! <a href="http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2010/02/19/utah-passes-bill-that-charges-women-for-illegal-abortion-or-miscarriage" target="_blank">http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/...carriage</a> "A bill passed by the Utah House and Senate this week and waiting for the governor's signature, will make it a crime for a woman to have a miscarriage, and make induced abortion a crime in some instances. According Lynn M. Paltrow, executive director of National Advocates for Pregnant Women, what makes Utah's proposed law unique is that it is specifically designed to be punitive toward pregnant women, not those who might assist or cause an illegal abortion or unintended miscarriage." "In addition to criminalizing an intentional attempt to induce a miscarriage or abortion, the bill also creates a standard that could make women legally responsible for miscarriages caused by "reckless" behavior. Using the legal standard of "reckless behavior" all a district attorney needs to show is that a woman behaved in a manner that is thought to cause miscarriage, even if she didn't intend to lose the pregnancy. Drink too much alcohol and have a miscarriage? Under the new law such actions could be cause for prosecution." Seems to me this could be used to go after a pregnant woman for falling down stairs or perhaps even for participating in sports!
Originally Posted By FaMulan What nuts! Sometimes miscarriages happen with no known outside cause. Quite often miscarriages happen due to an incompatibility between the blood types of the parents and it's something that's often unknown until it happens.
Originally Posted By DAR <<Drink too much alcohol and have a miscarriage?>> What woman would do this?
Originally Posted By Mr X Perhaps none would. But then again, there's a question of how much is "too much" alcohol. In teetottling Utah, one might be noticed sipping wine at a restaurant by a good number of people...and then if a miscarriage occurs you can be sure there will be people ready and willing to testify about the "excessive drinking" they witnessed. Think about it.
Originally Posted By imadisneygal And there's also a question of women not realizing they are pregnant in the very early stages when most miscarriages are likely to occur. Many women find out right away, but it's not unheard of for a woman to go a few weeks without realizing she's pregnant. And any miscarriage may or may not be related to any behaviors during that time. This law is ridiculous.
Originally Posted By Mr X ^---up next in Fascist America, mandatory monthly pregnancy screenings for all pre-menopausal women. After all, the government can't protect (and monitor) the unborn from reckless would-be Mothers if you don't know they exist.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo This is rediculous. My poor mom had several miscarriages in her life due to health issues, that was always traumatising enough, but to add this? Disgusting. Then think of all the women who may require medical assistance if they had a miscarriage and will not seek it out. Double standards Utah, disgusting filth.
Originally Posted By mele Just another way to punish women (as if living in Utah wasn't enough). It will interesting to see how this law will be used to punish woman for using any sort of "morning after" pills, etc. How comprehensive is Sex Ed in Utah, anyway? I would hope that since people seem so hell bent on prosecuting a woman for ending her pregnancy, they would triple the Sex Ed programs in their state. Is this the case?
Originally Posted By quincytoo So does the 3 times and you in prison for life rule stand here?? I would be a lifer then .... If a man beat a woman enough to cause a miscarriage does he get a double sentance?? Sorry but this law ddoesn't make sense, it is vile and disgusting.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***If a man beat a woman enough to cause a miscarriage does he get a double sentance??*** Actually, the purpose of feticide laws in the past were just that, Quincy...a PROTECTION for pregnant women against assault intended to terminate the pregnancy...this is very far from that notion indeed.
Originally Posted By hopemax And actually this law came about, because a woman hired someone to beat her up. She was under age and could not obtain an abortion without parental consent in Utah. <a href="http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14429070" target="_blank">http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14429070</a> They tried to charge her with murder, but the case was thrown out because, according the the judge, "a woman who is seeking to have or obtains an abortion for herself is not criminally liable." <a href="http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705349221/State-appeals-judgeaposs-ruling-in-Uintah-teen-beating-case.html" target="_blank">http://www.deseretnews.com/art...ase.html</a> So in the wake of a desperate teen taking a desperate course of action, the legislators of the state decided what needed to happen was to criminalize any woman who feels she has no other choice but to try and self-abort. Obviously, we don't want women making that kind of choice, but there are a lot more productive solutions to that problem.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***So in the wake of a desperate teen taking a desperate course of action, the legislators of the state decided what needed to happen was to criminalize any woman who feels she has no other choice but to try and self-abort.*** Along with, assuredly, a lot of women who are falsely accused. As I said in the title, better be extra, extra careful ladies. If I were a pregnant woman, I'd stay the hell in bed for the whole 9 months just in case!
Originally Posted By mele One thing I found pretty disgusting in Utah was the total poverty only a few blocks away (like 4 or 5 blocks) from the main temple in Salt Lake City. It's so opulent and garish and a few steps away, people living in shacks. Creepy place.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***If I were a pregnant woman, I'd stay the hell in bed for the whole 9 months just in case!*** ***Better not be poor then.*** No doubt! On the other hand, a pregnant woman (poor or otherwise) might not have any choice in the matter these days... <a href="http://www.theunnecesarean.com/blog/2010/1/15/media-coverage-of-burton-v-state-of-florida.html" target="_blank">http://www.theunnecesarean.com...ida.html</a> "Samantha Burton, who was confined to Tallahassee against her will to bed rest at 25 weeks pregnant by a Florida court, was in court this week with the Florida American Civil Liberties Union to fight the court order that rendered her medical decisions irrelevant."
Originally Posted By ecdc >>So in the wake of a desperate teen taking a desperate course of action, the legislators of the state decided what needed to happen was to criminalize any woman who feels she has no other choice but to try and self-abort.<< Welcome to the American criminal justice system. People who need our help, or education, or even mental hospitals, are branded scum and criminals and Joe Sixpack screams for tougher laws. The dirty little secret behind this? (Hint: Always follow the money.) More and more American prisons have been outsourced to private contractors. These private groups have their own small army of lobbyists that push state and federal officials for tougher laws so non-violent offenders spend even more time in jail (where some learn to become violent offenders) while the private businesses get rich. Christian nation indeed.
Originally Posted By ecdc <a href="http://womensrights.change.org/blog/view/pregnant_iowa_woman_arrested_for_falling_down" target="_blank">http://womensrights.change.org...ing_down</a> Here's where laws like this lead. A pregnant woman in Iowa fell down the stairs after getting light headed. After getting the ok from paramedics, she still went to the hospital out of concern for her fetus. She confided in a nurse that she had considered abortion and adoption since she was a single mom before deciding to keep the baby. That was all that nurse needed to hear. Apparently even thinking the A word makes you a criminal. The hospital promptly notified authorities and this pregnant woman spent two days behind bars, charged with attempted feticide. I really hate this country of superstitious hicks sometimes.
Originally Posted By quincytoo Thank the gods I live in Canada!!!!` I dont see how any of this can be against the law at all, The rights of the women are being spit at, trampled on then tossed out the window.
Originally Posted By gadzuux If they're so concerned about protecting the 'unborn', how come they have no interest in protecting the 'born'? Remember a year ago when Obama and the dems managed to pass an expansion of health care for over four million children of low income families, over the vehement objections of the GOP. The expansion of coverage was entirely paid for by increasing taxes on cigarettes. How many mormons smoke? So this legislation didn't cost them a dime, but they were still opposed to it anyway - just on principle. Remember Bush vetoing (twice!) the S-CHIP bill that provides for children's health care. The 'compassionate conservative' only issued ten vetoes in his entire eight years - and two of them blocked health care to children. It just illustrates how backward conservatives actually are - health care is just a government funded commie plot, and abortions are legal but miscarriages are suspect.
