Originally Posted By vbdad55 Well this would say apparently so, and with the cost of college today, there needs to be a lot of incentive. How the 'global' workforce and all the off shoring of white collar jobs plays into this over the next 5 years or so will be interesting. As are some of the state demographics here.... <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/10/26/degree.value.ap/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCAT ION/10/26/degree.value.ap/index.html</a>
Originally Posted By fkurucz Sometimes I wonder if the tuition money wouldn't be better spent on starting a business (I'm talking super expensive private school rates, not your local State U). Have the kid learn a trade at the local Community College (auto repair, plumbing, cosmetology, you name it) and after he/she completes a good apprenticeship use the $100K to set up a business (tools, vehicles, etc.). I know a couple who worked in the airline business (non pilots) who got out and opened a couple of take-n-bake pizzerias and who seem to be doing OK.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad <<<Sometimes I wonder if the tuition money wouldn't be better spent on starting a business (I'm talking super expensive private school rates, not your local State U). >>> By the time my son graduates High School we will have paid a total of around $180,000 in tuition alone. If you add another say $150,000 for college and say $150,000 for med school that brings it to $480,000. If he becomes a physician with a specialty, (he wants to be an orthopedic) he will easily earn this back in TWO YEARS and in an urban area in a large practice he might double that in ONE year. Yes , it's worth it.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I agree the landscape is changing...my alma mater is over $50K per year now with room and board -- I believe the growth in jobs is all in the small - medium business segment And having a trade to back you up means you can always earn cash when needed.... We have a friend who left his VP job at a bank ( he had learned a carpenters skills from his father - a home builder) - and went first into general construction and kept building his skills. Now has the skills and hours to nbe a 'master carpenter' and book shis time out at rates that would stun you and can work as often as he likes. Makes significantly more than at the bank, with more time off and much higher job satisfaction.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad ^ ^ ^ Of course there is the possibility that he will become a bagger at Wal Mart...in which case we will only take 346 years to break even.
Originally Posted By alexbook Shouldn't a college education mean more than simply training for a job? How do you measure the dollar value of learning about history and literature?
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA My family is filled with college graduates. My father had a Master's degree -- his parents went to college. I went to college. So did my wife. I know, whoop-dee-doo. My point is, going to college, a college degree was always assumed. That said -- I love the sound of fkurucz's idea. Never took wood shop, metal shop in high school -- that was for the 'dumb' kids. I was busy taking College Prep Algebra and Physiology and crap like that.
Originally Posted By DlandJB I know it is possible to do very well without a degree, but these days, I think you are safer in the long run, starting out, with a degree. The competition is fierce. In the D.C. area, you were even at a disadvantage with only a B.A. in some career paths. A degree doesn't make you a better person, but it tells someone who is only going to see you on paper before they decide whether or not to see you in person, that you are capable of taking on and completing a significant task. And I can tell you that if you can talk your kids into going into engineering, they are going to have potential employers flinging themselves at them. Especially companies that for security reasons can't hire foreign nationals.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <^ ^ ^ Of course there is the possibility that he will become a bagger at Wal Mart...in which case we will only take 346 years to break even< there is a certain point to that - for every doctor that comes out of college - there are hundreds of 'busines majors' , 'liberal arts majors' etc., who pay equally as much for 4 years and grad school, who will not earn that money back in short order. While I firmly believe that college does ( can ? ) - make a person wel rounded and more knowledgeable, that call for many who are unsure of their calling so to speak, is more unsure. Gone are the days where a business major can join a large firm and work their way up the 'career path' - as that just isn't reality for the most part any more. It's not always about the money, it is about job security and satisfaction also. When my oldest graduates in May, from a private unviversity, she will teach. She HAS to have the degree to teach, yet sh certainly will never make great money ( unless she enter adminstration in schools) - yet she will have job security and be doing what she wants to do, and always has.
Originally Posted By Shooba There's lots of options, so I wouldn't go to College "just because". I don't regret getting a degree, even if it's kind of generic and doesn't lead to a specific job or career. Going to College and getting a fine arts degree might not lead to the same job opportunities and financial well-being as a trade skill might. I was kind of brainwashed in high school to feel that a post-secondary degree was simply THE thing to do. In any case, I cannot imagine simply entering the workforce without some kind of education beyond high school. I'd hate to be 50+ years old, and suddenly find myself unemployed with only a high school education. I can't imagine having many options in that scenario.
Originally Posted By Shooba >>It's not always about the money, it is about job security and satisfaction also<< So true. You can make good money no matter your education. I had the benefit of working in a paper products factory during my summers (in a shocking coincidence, that's where my dad worked). Unionized and great money (especially for a student) with lots of overtime if you wanted extra. More than an adequate salary, but I would have been miserable doing that work for my entire life. If nothing else, a College degree increases your chances of working in an air-conditioned office with a comfy chair (and time to waste posting on LaughingPlace.com)
Originally Posted By DlandJB Shouldn't a college education mean more than simply training for a job? How do you measure the dollar value of learning about history and literature?>>> Well, that is how I viewed it many years ago and that is why I have a liberal arts degree in American History with minors in sociology and theology. However, when I got out of school, all anyone really cared about was how fast I could type. I got an administrative job and worked my way up. I do think it helped to have the degree. I learned how to think ahead, how to complete tasks, how to present work properly. I think it helped with my ability to move ahead. It certainly was worth it from a personal standpoint. However, I've lived my whole adult life in the non-profit world and as personally fulfilling as that is, it doesnt' do much for your financial security.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>If he becomes a physician with a specialty, (he wants to be an orthopedic) he will easily earn this back in TWO YEARS and in an urban area in a large practice he might double that in ONE year.<< Of course not everyone has what it takes to be an orthopedic surgeon (or even a vanilla MD). I was just thinking out loud from the perspective of a typical college student: slightly above average intelligence and will probably never make more than 100K (in today's dollars). As VB said, skilled tradesmen can do better than that. Of course, there is the question of having "skill". If you are a mediocre trim carpenter or car mechanic you won't do so well. But the real point here is to have a business. Own a nice repair shop as opposed to working at the local Ford dealership. Of course, this implies even more skills than just being a good mechanic.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>If nothing else, a College degree increases your chances of working in an air-conditioned office with a comfy chair (and time to waste posting on LaughingPlace.com)<< True, but it also means that you get to work tons of unpaid overtime. I once had a neighbor who was a house painting contractor. He was under the impression that college grads all made 200K. I showed him a salary survey for various professions and he was stunned. Then he invited me to the ball game that night (he had season tickets) and we rode in his BMW.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip << I'd hate to be 50+ years old, and suddenly find myself unemployed with only a high school education.>> In that case you might actually be better off. A least with a high school education you would be considered for a good service job. The college graduate would be too old to be hired for a professional position and overqualified for a service position.
Originally Posted By Shooba That's true. A 50-year old with a degree might not be hired by McDonald's or the like, as that's not someone you'd expect to be a long-term employee.
Originally Posted By DlandJB Do they expect anyone at McDonald's to be a long-term employee these days?
Originally Posted By avromark <<<And I can tell you that if you can talk your kids into going into engineering, they are going to have potential employers flinging themselves at them. Especially companies that for security reasons can't hire foreign nationals.>>> Guess I can't take engineering then eh? How about those that switched majors three times. (Surely not me ). Paying back OSAP is fun, but at least interest is minimal (none until you start to work). Living on a student budget though isn't fun.
Originally Posted By avromark <<Do they expect anyone at McDonald's to be a long-term employee these days?>> Hasn't 1 in 4 people worked at McD's (I wasn't one of them)
Originally Posted By DVC_dad I did. Mickey D's for 3 months, breakfast 4:30AM to after lunch crowd every day.
