Originally Posted By donnyaz Did you know that ALI spoke at a Klan rally ?Ali is no hero to me anymore. <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/video/2008/nov/11/sheffield-doc-fest-boxing" target="_blank">http://www.guardian.co.uk/film...t-boxing</a>
Originally Posted By DAR Of course it's right to attack a man when he has no right to defend himself. Rolls Eyes
Originally Posted By donnyaz He is still alive and talking.Its really not his fault that people made a faulse history of the man, its our fault for not listening.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "Of course it's right to attack a man when he has no right to defend himself. Rolls Eyes" He is a major public figure whose life is fair game for both praise and criticism. I don't care if he's alive, disabled or dead, he's worthy of discussion.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder This story is months and months old. There's nothing to see here, move along. Ali is the The Greatest.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<This story is months and months old. There's nothing to see here, move along. Ali is the The Greatest.>> You're suggesting that because this man was a Great Boxer we have some sort of collective obligation to ignore the negative things he has done. I think that's exactly the point the filmmaker is trying to get at. Hero worship can go too far. Ali aligned with The Nation of Islam, attended at least one Clan rally, and spoke about the evils of the races mixing. That's just not right. If Michael Phelps had said, "Death to all the Arabs," would you have responded, "Well, he IS a great swimmer?"
Originally Posted By DAR No but the point is this an attack on a man that doesn't have the full capacity to properly defend himself. It's like Michael Moore going after Charlton Heston in Bowling for Columbine. Heston was at the start of his battle with Alzheimers. It was a cowardly move there and it's cowardly here.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder DAR pretty much nails it in Post 9. Many of the principals here are not reliable now and/or not able to properly defend themselves or tell an accurate accounting. Certainly, Ali's involvement with Islam was controversial, but by all accounts his was an inclusive, peaceful life, and this entire thing reeks of someone with an agenda. To take it as the gospel truth is simply irresponsible.
Originally Posted By mele I don't really see beating the hell out of people as a peaceful life. I'm not a fan and I really don't care what he did 30+ years ago (good or bad). I don't understand why people see him as a hero. His profession is why he is in such bad shape now. While I don't feel like bashing him for something he did in the past, I don't think his present condition or the fact that he was a prize fighter make him off-limits for the people who do.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "While I don't feel like bashing him for something he did in the past, I don't think his present condition or the fact that he was a prize fighter make him off-limits for the people who do." The fact he was the best boxer of all time isn't the point. It's what he represented, who he was, at the particular time in history that he came along. He revolutionized boxing certainly, but he also had a profound affect on society and people's attitudes on any number of things during his time. Irrespective of how he earned his living, he did indeed, and still does, lead a peaceful, inclusive life. Many things he did back in his heyday were misunderstood and incredibly controversial, but would be considered tame by today's standards, converting to Islam being one of them. There are some people, however, who don't bother to learn more about Ali than just what's on the surface, and look at him at just some sad, broken down old fighter now. They seem to choose now to beat up on him again, stubbornly believing he's just some divisive racist, when he's unable, and likely, really doesn't care, to defend himself. Ali was and is many things, but a racist is not one of them.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder This Wiki article does as good a job as any of summarizing the highs and lows of Ali's life. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ali" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...mmad_Ali</a>
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I don't really see beating the hell out of people as a peaceful life.*** It's a sport. Sure, it ain't the prettiest sport, but it's a professional sport. You make it sound as though the guy was walking the streets hurting people out of malice. So, you're anti-boxing? What about martial arts sports? Wrestling? Fencing? Just sayin...
Originally Posted By mele C'mon, there's a lot more hands-on violence in boxing than the other sports you listed. There's often a lot more blood and a lot longer lasting physical effects. Get real...fencing as violent as boxing? Yeah, I get that some people believe it is a sport. Sure, it has a physicality about it and there is training involved. But I do not view it that way because not everyone is capable of hitting another human being, no matter how willing each participant is. I grew up around the kind of people who were able to easily cross that line. I don't care if people think it's a sport, I have every right to feel that way. Like I said, I am not criticising Ali for whatever he did or didn't do but I don't think 'peaceful' is an appropriate word for someone who chooses to beat another human being. How is doing it for fame and money any better than doing it for personal reasons? It's almost creepier. You can disagree with me on this but don't act like I there isn't something to what I am saying or make up BS comparisons.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "No but the point is this an attack on a man that doesn't have the full capacity to properly defend himself. It's like Michael Moore going after Charlton Heston in Bowling for Columbine. Heston was at the start of his battle with Alzheimers. It was a cowardly move there and it's cowardly here." We make saints out of the dead, or the very nearly dead, whether they deserve it or not.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Like I said, I am not criticising Ali for whatever he did or didn't do but I don't think 'peaceful' is an appropriate word for someone who chooses to beat another human being." Read up on him first. If you're interested, try a book by Thomas Hausner.
Originally Posted By mele SPP, I read the wiki link that you provided and at least twice read that he unnecessarily tortured the people fought (not sportsmanlike, nor peaceful) and there were also instances in his personal life that, while not violent, still do not fall under any sort of definition of a man of peace (or one with particularly strong religious convictions while looking at his multiple marriages, affairs and children born out of wedlock). I think we just need to agree to disagree here.
