Originally Posted By ecdc Since Newtown, there have been an insane number of mass shootings. In retrospect, we should have realized Newtown was the end, not the beginning. Once we as a country decided killing children was an acceptable trade-off for our gun fetish, that was it. What we really need is a good mass shooting at Disneyland. Kill like 50-60 people. See, schools and churches don't have lobbyists. But the entertainment industry is terrified of mass shootings. People stop going to theme parks or movie theaters, and they are screwed. So Disneyland and Hollywood might actually step up and put some real pressure on the craven politicians who worship at the feet of the NRA. Then, and only then, we might actually change this country into a place that takes gun violence seriously.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 We only take it take semi-seriously if it occurs in a school or movie theater. If it happens on some random street corner in New Orleans or Milwaukee, we think, well I don't go to that side of town so it won't affect me.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***churches don't*** Churches don't? I would think they care about losing customers at least as much as other facets of the entertainment industry would. <---shrugs
Originally Posted By fkurucz I think we are going to become the "metal detector" nation, with metal detectors becoming ubiquitous and we will soon accept their presence at stores, theaters, restaurants, churches, convention centers, libraries, coffee shops, workplaces, etc. as "normal". Heck, we already have them at stadiums and many amusement parks (they been in use at six flags for decades).
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I don't know that anyone finds any mass-shooting "acceptable". The problem is there is always some wacko around who doesn't care what anyone else thinks. In his sick mind what he is doing is entirely justified and almost necessary. As for the availability of guns to carry the crime out, what can you really do? That genie is out of the bottle and there is no way you are going to stuff it back in. There are so many guns in this country you will never get rid of them. There are always plenty of people who would have no problem obtaining one illegally. Lets face it... anyone who would shoot up a theater probably isn't terribly concerned about gun laws. We have only one hope, and I say this seriously. Ban ammunition. Eventually people will run out of what they have. Eventually a black market would take over and it would still be available, but it would be harder to get and much more costly. Of course we've done that with drugs and created more problems than we've solved. Essentially we are years too late to really do anything that would work.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 I think there are certain things you can do. We had an assault weapons ban for 10 years, and gee- the British didn't come over and re-colonize us. The Chinese didn't invade. Everyone could still buy all their other guns. Tyranny was somehow - whew! - avoided. And here's the thing: Adam Lanza's mom was only able to buy an assault weapon because we let that ban expire. She wasn't the sort of person who was going to buy a gun like that on the black market. She just walked into a gun store and bought what was available. If the assault weapon hadn't been available, she'd just have bought something less lethal. And Adam Lanza wouldn't have had access to the assault weapon. Now, he still could have gone into the grade school and shot it up. But he wouldn't have been able to kill so many kids and teachers so quickly. That's the whole point of an assault weapon. To kill large numbers of people quickly. They're designed for the military. You don't need one to hunt or to protect your home or to target shoot. But because the NRA fetishes guns in general and thinks any ban on Tuesday means all guns will be outlawed on Wednesday (well, they don't really think so, but they convince their members of it), the perfectly reasonable law which limited assault weapons to the military that they were designed for wasn't renewed. Limiting the number of rounds in magazines is a similar logical thing to do. Increasing inspections at gun retailers is another. Didn't the Lafayette shooter, who had a history of mental illness and shouldn't have been able to get a gun, buy his at a pawn shop? How about getting serious about cracking down on retailers of all types who wink and nod instead of doing a proper background check? How about closing a few of them down if necessary. If I was a family member of one of the people killed, I'd want to know that pawn shop owner was going to get more than some measly fine. We do have inspectors who pose as ineligible would-be gun buyers who spot check the system, so it's not a foreign concept - we just don't have nearly enough of them. How about closing the gun show loophole for background checks? There are definitely things we could do, but until those of us who favor them get just as adamant about them with elected officials as the NRA, nothing will be done.
Originally Posted By ecdc The shooter in Lafayette legally purchased a gun at a pawn shop. Why in the hell can people buy guns second hand like that? Close the gun show loophole, close the second hand market.
Originally Posted By ecdc White Tea Partier says he hates feminists, goes to movie theater where film by a prominent feminist comedian is playing, murders two women. America: "This man was mentally ill and we'll never understand his motivations."
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>As for the availability of guns to carry the crime out, what can you really do?<< Funny how civilized nations don't seem to have this problem. Then again, those countries don't have the easy gun availability we do. Recently I had to explain to my wife's English BIL (who happens to be a cop over there) just what a "gun show" is. When I told him that it was basically a "boot sale" where people can purchase guns without a background check or in some cases even having to show an ID, his response was "now I understand why it's so easy for nutters and criminals in the US to buy firearms"
Originally Posted By fkurucz And BTW, my BIL has NEVER carried a firearm as cop over there. Then again, he doesn't have to worry about some perp pulling a gun on him, because over there you can't purchase guns at flea markets or pawn shops. And yes, they think that there is some seriously wrong with Americans and their gun fetish. They think we're freaking nuts.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 When I studied at Oxford many years ago, I was in small-group study with my tutor. 3 of the 6 people were Americans. We were talking with the tutor about the riots that had occurred in Britain in minority neighborhoods the summer before. They weren't nearly as serious as what the US has seen, but they were a big deal in Britain. There was looting and property damage. Then one of the Americans asked "how many people got killed?" The tutor looked at the girl who asked the question like she had two heads. "Killed???" she asked incredulously. Then she said "Oh. Right. In America you're all armed, aren't you?"
Originally Posted By Tikiduck Seems to me the American gun fetish is not so much about the guns themselves as it is about the life and death power they represent. Power over animals and of course, power over other Humans. Truly, we must come off as a petty and insecure lot to the nations of progress.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf It's not just our obsession with guns that puzzle Europeans. It's also our stance on climate change, ridiculous healthcare system, our huge number of bible literalists, etc.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Europeans may shake their heads at us and in ways they are entitled. But they shouldn't start thinking they are ALL THAT. The U.S. is almost 100% populated by immigrants from throughout the world. Yes, there have been MANY rough spots along the road, but overall in the long term I think we have accommodated them better than the European countries are doing. They are just recently facing major immigration and frankly they aren't handling it for crap. I will take the U.S. any day.
Originally Posted By Tikiduck European immigration is much different than what is happening in the U.S. Theirs is mostly Muslim people who have no intention of integrating and adopting the customs of their new place of residence. Quite the opposite. They insist on living by their own barbaric religious laws. It is indeed a mess, thanks to immigration policies that are just too damn liberal. But what they don't have are thousands of potential mad dog psychopaths wielding the power of life and death at their fingertips. Or politicians of great influence openly stating that they are being guided by a God that defies reality, who are more than willing to lead us into a theocracy that would rival Islam.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf Yeah, immigration in the U.S. is only a problem because certain people on the right say it is. If you believe in capitalism, you believe in the efficient allocation of resources. This includes labor (people). For example, millions of Mexican farmers lost their jobs when NAFTA was ratified. So they have been migrating toward where the work is - north of the border. And in Europe, their problems relate to their tight, leftist labor markets which don't allow immigrants to work and become integrated. This means those who are allowed into their countries have little possibility and are treated as second class (or worse) people. Can you blame them for banding together and being bitter? And can you imagine how much worse things would be in Europe if there were guns everywhere like here?
Originally Posted By wipadarquee """ But the entertainment industry is terrified of mass shootings. People stop going to theme parks or movie theaters, """ We had one of those in Colorado already(remember Batman movie).
Originally Posted By fkurucz When I tell my European relatives that you can buy guns at pawnshops and flea markets (AKA gun shows) with no background checks, they are flabbergasted. As for the European "immigrant problem" I'll say this: If I had to choose between being an American Black or European Muslim immigrant, I would take being European Muslim. My BIL was a cop in the UK. He would have never shot a Muslim Immigrant. You want to know why? Because he never carried a firearm. NEVER.
